They are.
Not being capable of using them right doesn't change that.
Oh Katitof, you don't have anything constructive to add to the comments because you know my factual arguments are too strong, so u resort to baseless squawking: "tHeY aRe!!!"
Brummbar OP plz nerf!!!!
20 Oct 2019, 21:04 PM
#21
Posts: 1527
Permanently BannedOh Katitof, you don't have anything constructive to add to the comments because you know my factual arguments are too strong, so u resort to baseless squawking: "tHeY aRe!!!"
"I wish THQ was still alive and made CoH2. Ostheer for life."
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20 Oct 2019, 21:08 PM
#22
Posts: 5279
Or we could tune down allied TDs so armour means something again instead...
#stalinwept
20 Oct 2019, 21:09 PM
#23
Posts: 1527
Permanently Banned
Half true.
Werfer is really good, no change.
Panther is stuck between diving tank and TD. Needs 5 less range and 10% more moving accuracy imo to be a strong mobile brawler.
Brummbar is an assault gun that can’t assault shit because it gets wrecked. Not enough mobility to flank strongpoints, not enough armour or range to take them head on. Tried a brummbar 3 days ago and the everything penetrated like it was nothing. Either more armour or more range to make it more usable.
I’d give the Brummbar half the nerfs to armour back, for a bit less mobility. That way it’s more usable, but you have to be more careful where you commit it because it can’t escape as well.
You hit the nail on the head with the panther. It's apparently not a good diving tank due to poor on the move acc, and somewhat poor accuracy too, and not enough dps or range to be a straight up TD.
Werfer, however is far from good. But at least it has a very small niche. Risk it's neck every time for a min range barrage for a potential wipe whereas the katy sits back and just pummels the position from max range with it's sheer # of rockets and volleys. Slow and steady it racks up kills, while the werfer is more of an all-or-nothing. With that all said, I am NOT asking for a buff for the werfer. I don't think all T4 units need to be "excellent"
I guess I can support your changes with the Brum. Anything beats what it is right now.
"I wish THQ was still alive and made CoH2. Ostheer for life."
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20 Oct 2019, 21:14 PM
#24
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
Or we could tune down allied TDs so armour means something again instead...
Jackson, which is better than the Panther, got a 5 fuel increase in cost. That says it all unfortunately.
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20 Oct 2019, 21:15 PM
#25
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
You hit the nail on the head with the panther. It's apparently not a good diving tank due to poor on the move acc, and somewhat poor accuracy too, and not enough dps or range to be a straight up TD.
Werfer, however is far from good. But at least it has a very small niche. Risk it's neck every time for a min range barrage for a potential wipe whereas the katy sits back and just pummels the position from max range with it's sheer # of rockets and volleys. Slow and steady it racks up kills, while the werfer is more of an all-or-nothing. With that all said, I am NOT asking for a buff for the werfer. I don't think all T4 units need to be "excellent"
I guess I can support your changes with the Brum. Anything beats what it is right now.
I don’t mind that with the werfer because its barrage is super fast, so I always instantly pull it back to safety, whereas with the Katyusha you risk it for longer.
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20 Oct 2019, 21:28 PM
#26
Posts: 469
So a doctrinal tank is better than a non doctrinal tank?
OMGJESUS NERF THAT SHIT
OMGJESUS NERF THAT SHIT
20 Oct 2019, 21:33 PM
#27
Posts: 1527
Permanently BannedSo a doctrinal tank is better than a non doctrinal tank?
OMGJESUS NERF THAT SHIT
OMGJESUS, I just covered that in the initial post. SU has a metric ton of doctrinal tanks, why don't we make em all noticeably better than a more expensive stock tank, using your logic.
"I wish THQ was still alive and made CoH2. Ostheer for life."
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20 Oct 2019, 21:37 PM
#28
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Or we could tune down allied TDs so armour means something again instead...
Agreed.
Other suggestion:
KV-8 move DOT flame to an ability with a long cooldown (as with all flamer vehicles). That would allow these unit to be toned down but able to deliver lots of damage when needed.
Brumbar:
Reduce the damage but add extra damage vs structures and lower garrison/heavy cover modifier to 0-15 so that the unit delivers damage to units even in cover.
One could also test adding some critical vs infatry with an ability like sort stun or a DPS reduction.
The unit should spearhead attacks.
Or
move Ostwind to T4, stug-E to T3 and Brumbar doctrinal redesign as a KV-2.
20 Oct 2019, 21:38 PM
#29
Posts: 4474
So a doctrinal tank is better than a non doctrinal tank?nah that only works for allied vehivle, case in point both okw and osther get same vehicle as the non doc version : osther get okw panzer 4, okw get ostwind and 221
OMGJESUS NERF THAT SHIT
both literal copy paste
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
20 Oct 2019, 21:45 PM
#30
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Oh Katitof, you don't have anything constructive to add to the comments because you know my factual arguments are too strong, so u resort to baseless squawking: "tHeY aRe!!!"
Oh, I'm sorry, I made a mistake of assuming there aren't any stupid people around here who don't even follow patch notes on the only faction they play.
Panther was improved.
Brummbar was improved so much, it had to be nerfed to not be IWIN unit.
Werfer, while gated behind T4, never really lacked anything and its only rocket arty in game that PINS infantry that somehow manages to not get wiped by alpha strike it does.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
20 Oct 2019, 21:46 PM
#31
Posts: 1954
Half true.
Werfer is really good, no change.
Brummbar is an assault gun that can’t assault shit because it gets wrecked. Not enough mobility to flank strongpoints, not enough armour or range to take them head on. Tried a brummbar 3 days ago and the everything penetrated like it was nothing. Either more armour or more range to make it more usable.
I rarely see Brummbars anymore, but ran into one on Essen and had problems with it (KV1 and T34 bouncing off it). Don't know what it's armor is, but it was enough to bounce 4-5 shots. It can stand up to a T34 for awhile on a city map. It just seems really situational now, but a lot of units are like that.
Also, you can get two Ostwinds before you get one Brummbar, which are a lot less situational.
20 Oct 2019, 21:48 PM
#32
Posts: 55
Both have their own weaknesses. KV-8 is better at AI duty but has a terrible gun for AT duty, Brummbar can at least penetrate Allied mediums and deal good damage if it hits. KV-8 can deal more damage against anything with flesh in its range but it has no Bunker Busting Barrage to bomb things from afar so it needs to close in and expose itself against Panther/Tiger. And KV-8 can't escape easily either since it is really slow. There is also no big price difference, is there? Brummbar costs 150F and KV-8 costs 145F IIRC.
I don't see any reason why either of these tanks should change.
I don't see any reason why either of these tanks should change.
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20 Oct 2019, 21:51 PM
#33
Posts: 1527
Permanently Banned
Oh, I'm sorry, I made a mistake of assuming there aren't any stupid people around here who don't even follow patch notes on the only faction they play.
Panther was improved.
Brummbar was improved so much, it had to be nerfed to not be IWIN unit.
Werfer, while gated behind T4, never really lacked anything and its only rocket arty in game that PINS infantry that somehow manages to not get wiped by alpha strike it does.
Brum was improved so much there still exists a cheaper tank that is better than it in EVERY WAY (only thing is that "iT's dOcTRiNaL") Translation: If Brum was "improved so much", KV8 must be God-tier. If u get the werfer safely to AND from the min range barrage location, sure, it could be better than a katy. But that's a big "if."
"I wish THQ was still alive and made CoH2. Ostheer for life."
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20 Oct 2019, 21:57 PM
#34
Posts: 1527
Permanently Banned
I rarely see Brummbars anymore, but ran into one on Essen and had problems with it (KV1 and T34 bouncing off it). Don't know what it's armor is, but it was enough to bounce 4-5 shots. It can stand up to a T34 for awhile on a city map. It just seems really situational now, but a lot of units are like that.
Also, you can get two Ostwinds before you get one Brummbar, which are a lot less situational.
U rarely see Brums, so u weren't prepared for one, (ie. where's your su85?) KV1 and T34 aren't really counters if you're not flanking. You can still delay the Brum with any tank since Brum is still scared of them even if you don't always pen.
"I wish THQ was still alive and made CoH2. Ostheer for life."
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20 Oct 2019, 21:59 PM
#35
Posts: 232
Brummbar is slow as hell , expensive , has no turret, laughable range, gets stuck all the time , it will miss a shed load of shots due to awful tracking , long load time and inconsistent damage.
The american M8A1 motor carridge is better than a Brummbar in nearly all ways with massive range and damage for a far cheaper cost.. so yeah .. go figure..
The Brummbar needs its old range back with tracking and damage profile improved .
The american M8A1 motor carridge is better than a Brummbar in nearly all ways with massive range and damage for a far cheaper cost.. so yeah .. go figure..
The Brummbar needs its old range back with tracking and damage profile improved .
20 Oct 2019, 21:59 PM
#36
Posts: 808
dont think brum needs buff. What needs looking at is kv8, croc and allied TD's.
20 Oct 2019, 21:59 PM
#37
Posts: 4928
Or we could tune down allied TDs so armour means something again instead...
You'll have to town down all heavy tanks as well then. You can't just nerf Allies only counter to heavy armor and then let them get roflstomped by Tigers and Panthers every time a game goes over 20 minutes. If you're bothered by tank destroyers being so strong, look at the reason they have to be strong. That reason is SU-85's and M10's that could not counter a King Tiger.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
20 Oct 2019, 22:23 PM
#38
Posts: 281
You'll have to town down all heavy tanks as well then. You can't just nerf Allies only counter to heavy armor and then let them get roflstomped by Tigers and Panthers every time a game goes over 20 minutes. If you're bothered by tank destroyers being so strong, look at the reason they have to be strong. That reason is SU-85's and M10's that could not counter a King Tiger.
The only sane comment here. Here OP is asking for a brumbar buff. And in another thread they're arguing to buff timing or veterancy of stuggs. I wonder are you guys even playing with an open mind? How is a brumbar able to penetrate a fricking t34? Reduce its penetration if you want range buff etc.
20 Oct 2019, 22:27 PM
#39
Posts: 281
There is a reason to the range of allied TD. Axis tanks have more armor on stock units. T0 shrek squads on wermacht. 5 man reketens with OP retreat ability. Yet you want stug to come earlier or JP4 reworked.
How about a nerf to brumbar penetration and you can have your increased range? It doesn't work like this. Have you never seen a strat of shrek blobs for tanks and accompanying brumbar for annihilating AT guns?
How about a nerf to brumbar penetration and you can have your increased range? It doesn't work like this. Have you never seen a strat of shrek blobs for tanks and accompanying brumbar for annihilating AT guns?
20 Oct 2019, 22:30 PM
#40
Posts: 281
Kv 8 is a sitting duck if a panzer4/panther surrounds it. It has to switch with a timer between flame and that lackluster 45mm gun. Its Flame does less damage than a flamer halftrack just because it has 1 flame thrower. It is a doctrinal tank. I see no reason why it should be nerfed.
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