You build the jagpanzer to take on allied TDs. It beats the jakson,su 85 and, firefly in a 1v1 fight. It is the best td when used right.
This tank is best used to ambush. When playing correctly, your enemy won't have enough time to escape. Don't put this vehicle on fire at will. Hold fire and bring another at source to guarantee a kill.
Jagdpanzer IV Refit
16 Oct 2019, 19:50 PM
#41
Posts: 450
16 Oct 2019, 20:17 PM
#42
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
The JP4 could work in HQ after 2 trucks to allow okw something that isn't God tier but still good as AT if the schwere goes boom. It also allows an okw player to go med+mech and still have a decent TD to help fight TDs.
I like this a lot. After all it was originally in the bghq. This is like a happy medium between the two
16 Oct 2019, 20:32 PM
#43
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Some suggestion may include.
Price to 300-340/120 pop to 12. If there is a need nerf to HP or armor. Increase reload time
Unit is now designed to fight mediums and TDs.
Vet 1 ability:
"Cautious Movement" replace by a target weak point variation that lock target for around 10 secs
or
a single AP round
or
A high penetration skill shot similar to Pershing
or
"Ambush" unit is cloaked can rotate but movement break camo. Unit gain +5 sight radius and 15% rotation plus another 2 sight radius and 5% for each vet level.
Price to 300-340/120 pop to 12. If there is a need nerf to HP or armor. Increase reload time
Unit is now designed to fight mediums and TDs.
Vet 1 ability:
"Cautious Movement" replace by a target weak point variation that lock target for around 10 secs
or
a single AP round
or
A high penetration skill shot similar to Pershing
or
"Ambush" unit is cloaked can rotate but movement break camo. Unit gain +5 sight radius and 15% rotation plus another 2 sight radius and 5% for each vet level.
16 Oct 2019, 20:35 PM
#44
Posts: 808
Imo the only issue with the JP4 is its place in tech. If it's along side a panther you will 9/10 times take the panther due to its mobility traits.
The JP4 could work in HQ after 2 trucks to allow okw something that isn't God tier but still good as AT if the schwere goes boom. It also allows an okw player to go med+mech and still have a decent TD to help fight TDs.
It's not a spearhead unit after all, it's primarily defensive in a very aggressive faction which is why it feels so out of place.
in most situations, the 2nd truck ppl go for is the schwere hq, that would make little difference. Maybe if the jagdpazner is available before unlocking the flak gun on shwere or switch it with ir HT battlegroup HQ. i dont think jagd pazner really needs much of a buff, it counters all med-to lights aswell does expentially well vs allied TD's. only struggles vs heavies but thats why you have a panther. At most id probs give it better pen through vet
16 Oct 2019, 20:35 PM
#45
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
So imo a vet 3 JP 4 has inferior bonus to a vet 3 SU-85 to M36 I would even go so far to say even to FF.
If we are comparing the accuracy/reload vet bonuses by themselves, then yes. But the Jagdpanzer IV has better base stats (accuracy and ROF). The vet 1 ability and the vet 2 extra hitpoints are incredibly useful, especially when fighting other TDs. A vet 4 Jagdpanzer IV has the fastest reload and the highest accuracy in the game of any vehicle IIRC. The only thing its veterancy lacks is extra penetration, but that is on purpose.
16 Oct 2019, 20:43 PM
#46
Posts: 4474
The vet 5 is a jk
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
16 Oct 2019, 20:45 PM
#47
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
If we are comparing the vet bonuses by themselves, then yes. But the Jagdpanzer IV has better base stats (accuracy and ROF). The vet 1 ability and the vet 2 extra hitpoints are incredibly useful, especially when fighting other TDs. A vet 4 Jagdpanzer IV has the fastest reload and the highest accuracy in the game of any vehicle IIRC. The only thing it doesn't get is extra penetration, but that is on purpose.
Are you sure about that? I am under the impression that FF with a commander has better accuracy at least from range 45.
And other TDs probably have better accuracy on the move.
In my experience "Cautious Movement" is bugged and the unit will not auto-fire many times.
HP buff is not bad but one buys Tds to counter enemy vehicles and not soak up damage.
JP4 is not bad and will win 1vs1 duel vs most TDs but it simply a not cost efficient counter to them since it cost about the same and has about the same Pop.
16 Oct 2019, 23:18 PM
#48
Posts: 5279
in most situations, the 2nd truck ppl go for is the schwere hq, that would make little difference. Maybe if the jagdpazner is available before unlocking the flak gun on shwere or switch it with ir HT battlegroup HQ. i dont think jagd pazner really needs much of a buff, it counters all med-to lights aswell does expentially well vs allied TD's. only struggles vs heavies but thats why you have a panther. At most id probs give it better pen through vet
Yea I'd do the pre flak upgrade schwere, but in HQ not the schwere so that a player COULD build med/mech if schwere is out of reach.
#stalinwept
17 Oct 2019, 04:25 AM
#49
Posts: 888
I think this unit should be a little cheaper than it is. It should be reduced to 14 pop (just like the Jackson and Firefly should be) and it's fuel cost should be reduced by 10.
17 Oct 2019, 05:08 AM
#50
Posts: 1794
If we are comparing the accuracy/reload vet bonuses by themselves, then yes. But the Jagdpanzer IV has better base stats (accuracy and ROF). The vet 1 ability and the vet 2 extra hitpoints are incredibly useful, especially when fighting other TDs. A vet 4 Jagdpanzer IV has the fastest reload and the highest accuracy in the game of any vehicle IIRC. The only thing its veterancy lacks is extra penetration, but that is on purpose.
Imo that's one issue. You define a unit on its based specs but then allies get bigger vet bonus and so closed down that specs while retaining its other specialists. In general that's how i feel and how allies seem to end the game stronger.
17 Oct 2019, 05:53 AM
#52
Posts: 833
The Jagdpanzer IV's been in an odd position since the OKW rework a few years back.
It was designed for a completely different tech structure, and in the current lineup it's a little redudant. It's a fast-firing anti-medium tank specialist like the StuG, but it's in a tier with the OKW Panzer IV (which beats mediums and kills infantry) and the Panther (which can take on just about anything). The JPIV is only really the optimal choice against tank destroyer spam, which makes it a rather niche unit.
Furthermore, the JPIV's low penetration can make it a risky pick: with the plethora of viable heavy vehicles now available, it risks being rendered ineffective by the enemy build. The same is not true of the Panther, and the JPIV doesn't even have the saving grace of being able to fall back onto anti-infantry duty.
[Thoughts?
My thoughts are your claims about the units role and it's performance are misleading.
Can P4 reliably counter Churchills from 60 range on crossing on the woods? Current JP provides a lot more with its RoF and 60 range. You can even beat more expensive allied TDs in 1vs1.
I am not saying your thread is totally wrong, but insisting it can only counter allied meds is just wrong. You build it on long range maps, urban maps you also have the option of more mobile panther. Stock it can struggle against IS_2, but by the time an IS2 is on the field it will have unlocked it's powerful RoF buffs.
These are non doc tools allies can only dream of. And if you're gonna give it the option for extra pen at a button click you're gonna have to nerf the vet it unlocks
Let's unite the CoH2 community and make sure racism is
17 Oct 2019, 05:54 AM
#53
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
If we are comparing the accuracy/reload vet bonuses by themselves, then yes. But the Jagdpanzer IV has better base stats (accuracy and ROF). The vet 1 ability and the vet 2 extra hitpoints are incredibly useful, especially when fighting other TDs. A vet 4 Jagdpanzer IV has the fastest reload and the highest accuracy in the game of any vehicle IIRC. The only thing its veterancy lacks is extra penetration, but that is on purpose.
A stat comparison between JP4 and SU-85 at vet 3
(according to cruzz)
JP vs SU-84
Accuracy:
0.072/0.06/0.048 vs 0.072/0.059/0.052
Penetration: 200/185/170 vs 312/299/286
Reload:3.87 - 4.68=4.275average vs 4.32
Speed: 6.6 vs 6.8
Accel: 1.9 vs 2.5
Rotate: 24 vs 26.4
cost: 400/135 vs 350/130
pop: 15 vs 15
JP vs SU-84 with JP at vet 4
Accuracy:
0.099/0.083/0.067 vs 0.072/0.059/0.052
Penetration: 200/185/170 vs 312/299/286
Reload:2.96-3.58 = 3.27 average vs 4.32
Speed: 6.6 vs 6.8
Accel: 1.9 vs 2.5
Rotate: 24 vs 26.4
cost: 400/135 vs 350/130
pop: 15 vs 15
17 Oct 2019, 05:59 AM
#54
Posts: 833
A stat comparison between JP4 and SU-85 at vet 3
(according to cruzz)
JP vs SU-84
Accuracy:
0.072/0.06/0.048 vs 0.072/0.059/0.052
Penetration: 200/185/170 vs 312/299/286
Reload:3.87 - 4.68=4.275average vs 4.32
Speed: 6.6 vs 6.8
Accel: 1.9 vs 2.5
Rotate: 24 vs 26.4
JP vs SU-84 with JP at vet 4
Accuracy:
0.099/0.083/0.067 vs 0.072/0.059/0.052
Penetration: 200/185/170 vs 312/299/286
Reload:2.96-3.58 = 3.27 average vs 4.32
Speed: 6.6 vs 6.8
Accel: 1.9 vs 2.5
Rotate: 24 vs 26.4
Jp4 vet doesn't stop at 3 you know. If you read the post you're quoting he says vet4
Let's unite the CoH2 community and make sure racism is
17 Oct 2019, 06:02 AM
#55
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Jp4 vet doesn't stop at 3 you know. If you read the post you're quoting he says vet4
and if you read my post I include vet 4.
17 Oct 2019, 06:10 AM
#56
Posts: 1794
I say the disparity in pen is more than accuracy. I mean 0.072 is pretty damn high already. Higher than panthers.
Sure allies needed pen, sure axis dont need that much pen..but these are old conventions imo. As started in my other thread, about allies do have armor values which are also high... Higher than what's expected with doctrine counters.
How much does focus sight help su85?
Thats the thing, allies seem to have access to stronger late game. And we are talking about jp4 okw, which are both superior to wehr arsenal's!
Sure allies needed pen, sure axis dont need that much pen..but these are old conventions imo. As started in my other thread, about allies do have armor values which are also high... Higher than what's expected with doctrine counters.
How much does focus sight help su85?
Thats the thing, allies seem to have access to stronger late game. And we are talking about jp4 okw, which are both superior to wehr arsenal's!
17 Oct 2019, 08:54 AM
#57
Posts: 2243
give it better accu while moving the chassis. Its really annoying that it miss so many time while turn only the chassis.
this goes to all non-turret TDs.
this goes to all non-turret TDs.
17 Oct 2019, 10:35 AM
#58
Posts: 3260
I am not saying your thread is totally wrong, but insisting it can only counter allied meds is just wrong. You build it on long range maps, urban maps you also have the option of more mobile panther. Stock it can struggle against IS_2, but by the time an IS2 is on the field it will have unlocked it's powerful RoF buffs.
In a large teamgame where it's got endless things to shoot at, maybe.
The idea is it can sidegrade for better penetration at the cost of rate of fire. You refit it into an SU-85 and give up its strengths in the process.
The core problem of the idea that would need to be resolved is you've then got an SU-85 with the durability of a JPIV, but I think it's solid beyond that.
17 Oct 2019, 10:50 AM
#59
Posts: 1220
I wouldn't count on it ever getting any pen boost as long as panther exists.+
17 Oct 2019, 10:52 AM
#60
Posts: 4474
bold of u to assume he can
and if you read my post I include vet 4.
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
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