Doesnt really matter. the su85 performs way better in the soviet army then the jp4 does in the okw. okw doesnt have access to the at nades or button up so supporting is much easier and a overall more effective combo then anything you can achieve with the jp4
Ummm, there are already posts in this thread stating its exactly the opposite with explanations.
And OKW does have access to AT nades and pfausts. Its in 2 most commonly picked doctrines. You also have cheap spammable mines to protect it just as well as soviets, you have 5 men squads with pshrecks that require no teching or side costs, same for puppchens.
JP4 have much better AT protection from infantry then SU-85. |
JP4 has higher armor (irrelevant if they fire at each other, arguably the JP's armor advantage applies only to mediums and infantry at) while the St wins in rate of fire and mobility. Their penetration is nearly identical. The weakness of Soviet t4 is a different story, and so are their threats, but I wouldn't claim the JP4 has superior stats or abilities (focused sight vs camo is a different topic). Perhaps the SU could use an armor buff but this is thinness of allied armor in general.
So the allies have something with less armor (arguably irrelevant with their intended targets) but greater mobility and rate of fire. Yes,SU85 with more armor will drown us in axis tears.
At vet2 JP gets 10% more armor and extra 160hp, its ROF vet bonuses also are only 10% worse then SU-85 one and JP4 after vet1 will always have first shot advantage(not only talking 1v1, but attacking any armor).
I would also argue the mobility part of SU-85. Its not very mobile, it is compared to elephant, but not compared to JP4. |
You have problems using Cons/Penals early game? dude if thats the case, there lies your real issue, l2p, if you cant make proper use of units that excel in the early game your lost bro.
No, I have a problem using them past 5 minute.
I'm not even going to address rest of your trolling bs as I clearly talk to a brick wall here. |
PS Katitof : the russian faction has been designed so that you always have scaling inf in Commanders? How have you not realized this??? You moan about penals and cons in every single thread, dont you realize that you can use Shocks/Guards/PPSH cons!? Almost eveery single Russian commander has a variation for these inf types.
What do you want? Penals to be Panzer Fusilers with G43s? Guards to be Obers? PPSH cons to be SHocks? Shocks to be the old school UBER Shocks?
A balanced infantry that will not force me to spam maxims or sniper only to have a chance at fighting basic troops of axis factions perhaps?
The possibility to use other doctrines then the ones with IS-2/ISU/T-34/85 and guards/shocks?
You know, the balanced game for playstyles that actually resolve around tier units, not call-ins and allow stock tier units to actually be useful late game when opponents lolspam heaviest armor they have found in their varied doctrines that still allow for interesting doctrinal choices even if we narrow it to Tiger only doctrines.
And in case you were sleeping under a rock for past year and a half-this is what community ask since release. |
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Nothing, because nothing can be done.
Soviets are simply no fun to play because of stiff tiering that limits you compared to 3 other tiering systems, stock infantry doesn't scale and looses to every other stock infantry.
USF, while having flexible rifles are also not that interesting to play, because you have literally no options to open, its always 4 rifles or gtfo regardless of what you want to do later, which is still pretty limited to spamming shermans/jacksons or EZ8.
The factions are simply not appealing from design level even if potent. And lets not forget that they had a plethora of their own balance problems as well where units scale badly or don't scale at all and you are forced to relay on doctrines way too heavily, especially for late game, which limits already limited options even more. |
If the SU85 is 'fine' the JP IV must be 'fantastic'.
Or we could use our axis only friends terminology and replace 'fine' with 'underpowered' and 'fantastic' with 'op'.
SU-85 is no competition for JP4. JP got superior stats, optical stealth technology, much better scaling, MUCH better supportive AT that doesn't require specific tier to get and literally no teching cost if you open with med truck.
Had allies something of this caliber we'd be drown in tears within minutes of its release.
That being said, I don't believe either is OP or UP, JP4 is pretty amazing but SU-85 suffers from classic T4 problem-you get units that can be replaced with different units more effectively and earlier(or later if we want to use ISU instead of SU-85).
T4 overall doesn't perform well enough to appeal to anyone to get it. |
WTF? In beta T34/85 in 4 command points 
Back then CPs were aquired much slower.
5CP was a tiger. |
Put a Zis 10 meters ahead from ISU, voilá, elefant useless.
One turbomortar and that is useless.
And since you were fighting sov T2 for over 20mins now, you'll have it vetted and probably 2nd one as well.
OKW have it even easier with ISG and stuka. |
I've also had a game like this. Got stomped in early game, lost like 10 conscripts total and was pushed off the map. But my super sick skills with ISU (aka A-move) saved the day by wiping like 5 squads in 3 min. They even flanked it with a (OKW) Panther. All of it shots bounced off and my 3 Zis supporting ISU wrecked it.
The people who are saying ISU is fine are the ones who need to learn to play. But please without ISU.
So, your opponent had 2400mp and map advantage and lost.
To me this looks like a terrible player facing off horrible player, not really a balance but skill issue if your opponent wasn't able to ROFLSTOMP your leftovers of an army and ISU with that kind of advantage. |
There are counters to ISU but you must be this flexible to get them to work
#adapt
(I also think the same goes for the Jagdtiger, so that should be rethought too. Still, at least it doesn't one-shot inf)
Actually, all it takes is to know more then that:
I know this was primary axis tactic since, well, release, but now it takes a bit more then that.
General consensus is "if it can't be a-moved by blob/tankspam, its OP".
Well, it isn't, it just means you play stupid. |
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