Why do you guys insist on turning heavies into these counter-all vehicles all the sudden. Weren't we working away from a heavy tank meta..
There is no reason give heavy tanks longer ranges to deal with tank destroyers. Tank destroyers are supposed to kite heavy tanks. Is that not obvious?
To deal with this,you support your heavy tank with 50-60 range units...
The KT literally does not need this. Just park a Jp4(which flat out beats SU85s and jacksons) right next to it..
Same with tiger,even though its harder since they lack a 60 range TD(SO BUFF THE STUG TO BE INLINE WITH OTHER FACTIONS 60 RANGE TD's,NOT THE TIGER. #JustRelicBalancing),park double paks,or a couple stugs with a halftrack to reinforce paks that were hit by artillery.
I dont understand. Please dont put this in live. And if youre planning on giving a pershing(when its added) 45-50 range,please reconsider. Its only moving towards taking away from late game combined arms.
The other changes are +1 btw,but why go 4-5 steps forward and 1 step back.
+1 to this all day.
Also comm_ash, I mentioned this exact problem earlier today based on theoretical values, your testing confirms how broken more range on the Tiger would be for the USF.
Relic pls!
Also Relic, I know you balance for 1v1, but please keep in mind that buffing Axis late game units is especially dangerous for larger team games because they outright dominate there. In small games a JpIV and a KT are rare, but in team games it is the norm. With a buff to range you outright beat any Allied combined arms force and still have more than half of your army to call on. Please don't just throw larger team games under the bus here.
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You can only compare Tiger to IS-2, since they cost same manpower/fuel/population and command points.
Based on in-game stats currently IS-2 has more armor and mobility for the same cost.
'What if'-s are pointless.
Tiger doesn't arrive at VET2 level so it's not unit but veterancy bonus related.
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10% more penetration ->(bulletin gives 5%) wow fuki'n nothi'n, also only affects vs vehicles
10% more range wow you need spotter anyways,
wow Tiger not good on open maps(flanking/easy AT target),
wow on urban maps range negated by buildings/etc anyways.
The meh buff for the same cost still not worth it, should be survivability.
Ok...I'll bite.
Let's compare Tiger to IS-2.
Tiger has better penetration and shoots at lower armor tanks more consistently.
Tiger has faster ROF.
Tiger is more accurate making it lethal against infantry and AT guns.
Germans have better and more efficient repair options.
Better vet than IS-2 outright.
IS-2 is an awesome bullet shield that can deal out massive damage before needing to repair.
IS-2 is faster, unless it runs into a blitzing tank.
Ignore the bulletins for now. Keep in mind that TA also uses same gun, so actually you do get a vet 2 tiger off the bat, actually a vet 3. Also if the excuse is that vet should lock up amazing abilities that are impossible to counter than IS-2 should also get 100 range at vet 2 since it is rare.
Before telling everyone they should ignore what ifs try the mod and see if USF has a chance against new Tiger. Also note that the extended range at call in makes the tank straight up a nightmare for USF TD's. One little micro mistake, or bad pathing (how can there be bad pathing on USF tanks?) and your Jackson is gonna get nailed. Killing Jackson's also vets the Tiger pretty quick. Shermans can outright be ignored, since a single Stug (or pak) behind the Tiger will deal with it. USF AT guns are not reliable enough to penetrate the front of the Tiger, and their small squad size makes them very vulnerable to wiping. A Tiger using attack ground can almost always wipe on the first shot. |
Thread: Brace8 Sep 2015, 14:27 PM
Brace =/= retreat.
Brace =/= retreat.
So can we give Brace to all static structures then?
Except FRP's aren't hard to punish at all.
No it means you need to consider your investment. 60 seconds is still shorter than the recharge on most artillery pieces.
It's almost like that's how it should work!?
But the Schwer doesn't have the durability of emplacements though? It cannot move, but it cannot brace.
This would make mortars and support guns to good against them, decent cooldown + high reduction (which is how it will be in the upcomming patch) works well enough.
Brace is retreat for structures. Saying it is not equal to retreat is just...weird.
Also the Brit emplacements are a core part of the army, and in many cases are required, while the other factions emplacements are not, and have other strengths. OKW trucks certainly do not deserve this function because they are not required to be built out of base sector, you just have the added bonus of being able to do that. Oh and the Germans never have the problem of Stuka dive bomb destroying stationary structures in one hit. The most they have to fear is an IL-2 which can be shot down and is extremely munitions heavy.
I don't really even know how to respond to your Schwerr comment. Basically you are arguing a free upgrade on a tech structure, that can kill inf, light tanks, planes, and support weapons that come within range, and seriously threaten medium tanks is not enough. You should also be able to make it indestructible because you built it too far outside your base for 0 cost. Oh and the building self deploys so it takes none of your infantry off the front line to gain field presence.
Good to see predictions of nerf Allies buff Axis as soon as Brits appeared going on full force. |
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I cannot understand the Tiger changes.
As a quick reminder, if the Tiger I gets 55 range that means for USF that its dedicated TD (which cannot injure infantry) must be reversing as soon as the Tiger enters its range, if the Tiger is moving towards it, to not get hit every time by the Tiger I's gun. This is the problem with the TA it can stun shot a Jackson before it can escape and guarantee a kill, causing huge mp bleed.
Please do not increase range of the Tiger I. |
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Most stuff here I agree.
Why have you not tried the sniper? It is easily one of the most over performing units against Brits right now.
If on an open map 2 sniper makes Brits give up all ground until they can find a counter, meanwhile you can settle in and place all sorts of nasty surprises for them.
AC is very useful against Brits. Don't chase wasps push them back. A single volley of AC and they have to run.
Agree MG's are limited in use.
Mortars are good until they get their first emplacement up and then they have to just sit there firing at it. Still have some uses, but get wiped pretty easily.
Pak is useful in all situations.
Grens still perform like a champ, but very vulnerable to wipes.
T4 is out,as you said. T3 is hot. TA is also out. Elephant still useful. MtHT is amazing. FHT is stupid because vet does not help it, but still useful.
Werfer, in current state, is not helpful. PG's are also limited in use.
Because of the power of Brit inf I find myself avoiding straight up duels with my grens. Instead I rely on snipers, and suppression to deal with them. This free's up lots of munitions, which are helpful in making apparently vulnerable targets bait in a trap. Cruiser tanks are especially vulnerable to seeking out what looked like unguarded flanks.
For instance place a stug covering a road, but clearly a bit too far forward. Place two tellers on the unprotected flank and rear. Keep your infantry immediately behind or along side your Stug. Brit players will not engage stug frontally, but rely on the flank to get the kill. If possible keep a pak well in reserve to cover the rear. As soon as he hits the teller draw all your forces away to immediately destroy the tank. A single MG can hold up a brit infantry front long enough for you to finish off a tank. You should have already bled him early of MP so late game bleed simply solidifies the win.
If you get into a standoff, do not attempt to push. Stablize the line and then get 1 or 2 artillery pieces (MHT, mortar, LeFH). If you have none you will have to get werfers. Target the emplacements holding up your tanks first. As soon as one comes down push forward and take the nearest point. Force him to fall back and attempt to set up again. Rarely will you be able to full on route the Brits, and this makes you vulnerable if you over extend so instead solidify your gains, and then use a scout to find the next artillery target.
DO NOT CHASE TANKS. Brit tanks are too fast, and their AT options in the mid to late game too dangerous to risk pushing. Take consolation in the fact that every point of damage on a Brit tank is vet for your stugs and do a better job of finishing tanks off.
Brumbar on city maps can be a useful unit to deal with Brits. They can fire over shot blockers and the expensive Brit infantry suffer to it. They are also excellent against emplacements.
Flamer pio's can be very useful. Consider building pio's just for flames on maps with lots of buildings. |
You can debate all day if its OP or not, which it is imo. But the crux is its just dull gameplay. I have flashbacks of Brit Sim City from Opposing Fronts 
Larger games are taking much longer than before in my experience when different factions are in play. The Brits, if they survive the early game, are able to lock down small sections and Allied players can be nearly impossible to dislodge early. This makes part of each map a no go zone. As long as you have 1 vp and 1 fuel this proceeds until the late game, at which point you return to fighting. The game play is fairly boring and poorly developed. There is no incentive to cap points near Brit hard points and they have no reason to leave.
Unfortunately the free flowing battles of COH2 are severely hampered by the Brit faction because Relic made them so dependent on holding ground without backing down.
To nerf brace will require early game options for Brits to be reexamined and balanced.
Agree with Budwise that this promotes dull gameplay. |
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Stun rounds on Ost sniper fail to stun frequently. Oldy but a goody. |
I can see Relics balance designer now...
'What? The Ostheer howitzer does less damage than the Soviets?' he flings his cup at the lead programmers head. 'What do you think you are doing man!? Do you not know about Krupp Steel?!'
'B..b..but sir, it's just a 10.5cm artillery piece...and the unit description...'
'Bugger the unit description you blithering idiot!' the balance designer cries, pieces of bratwurst flying from his mouth. 'Buff the LeFH immediately, nerf the ML-20 as far below it as you can get away with. Some of the community has been complaining, we'll get away with it.'
'Yes sir, right away sir,' says the programmer, bowing repeatedly as he backs towards the door.
'Not so fast,' the balance designer mutters, freezing the programmer mid bow. 'There must be some other things we can change around or throw in.' He snaps his fingers. 'That's it! Buff the luftwaffe strafes and nerf the allied ones; we all know the glorious luftwaffe was far superior, I bet they could even cause more damage crashing their planes than allied pilots!' He falls to the ground, laughing maniacally as the programmer looks on in horror. At last he stops, reaching for a schnitzel before continuing.
'This new faction for the axis...It is...Sufficiently powerful yes?'
'F...f...for the axis my lord?' whispers the programmer. 'The uh...the UKF are an allied faction...we thought...'
'You what?' The balance designers knuckles turn white, crushing the schnitzel in his hands like an american body beneath the tracked wheels of Krupp Steel. 'You what?!' He shouted, voice echoing in the hall.
'We thought the designs were great sir, a late game armour faction for the allies to match some of the late axis armour pieces...'
The balance designer turned and began striding towards the programmer screaming at the top of his voice: 'Krupp steel! Krupp steel!' He shook the programmer in his arms. 'Krupp steel you idiot! It was supposed to be an axis faction! Why would we give any allied faction such tools? Do you want to destroy this game?'
The programmer fell down blubbering. 'I'm sorry my lord, but it's already been released. What can I do?'
There was a deep sigh.
'It's too late to change sides now.' He turned away and closed his eyes for a moment. 'Give it a few weeks, then begin systematically nerfing everything that even compares to the beautiful armour of our axis factions. Do I make myself clear?'
'Y...yes m...mein fuhrer,' sobbed the programmer, crawling from the room.
The balance designer turned, clasping his hands together. Soon all would be as it should have been. Soon they would all see the might of how it was. He began to rub his small, narrow moustache in glee.
Such gold. |
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Thanks nigo! |
I'm not here to complain about the DMG of the AVRE, but as others suspected/pointed out, the problem lies with its mobility (twice the acceleration of the ST) aswell as the high HP pool (not a problem in this case but in general).
Elefant has 1040hp (according to coh2-stats) and this ele was ~65% HP (if you pause at 29s you can clearly see it).
The problem is not only that it can escape so easily, but for the dmg it does, it reloads way too fast.
What was the point of this video? As far as I can tell if a German player has no micro, and gets flanked, and he allows his tanks to auto target, and he let the Brit player get multiple late game armor pieces, and he kept his tanks as close together as possible, and he had no supporting infantry, and no supporting units of any kind, and did not chase down and kill a clearly weakened Brit tank...I mean seriously.
From this video I see a rather good unit killing another unit, which it still only had some percent chance of killing since it could have been deflected by the elephant armor. |
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