You need to pay extra attention when fighting Pios, the german builder unit. Do you have to pay extra attention when fighting Engineers, the soviet builder unit? Is the soviet Engineer squad capable of wiping your elite infantry in reasonable time? Pios are. And thats unbalanced.
I agree that Pio's do too much damage, but you can't say nerf Pio's because they build buildings. That makes no sense. Pio's had little to no role in combat until this patch. Finally, they are able to enter combat and contribute. They also must be close and don't scale well so I like them. Like I said a small nerf in damage is needed, but they are very close.
The problem with this patch is, as has been stated, it exaggerates the problems with the Soviet faction. The game is actually getting better, but it will be an uphill battle.
I also agree that T3 and T4 should be brought down in price for Soviets. CE's also probably deserve a slight boost in damage.
Grens should also probably not be able to build bunkers, unsure on this one with new bunker nerf.
Struggling with Pio's? A flame penal will clear that right up.
Maxim needs to be buffed again. Probably much higher suppression. |
ahahaahhhahahahaa xD And people are still defending the power of terminator Pios. Its getting pathetic, seriously
Pio's do too much damage, but this was a terribly used scout car. There are videos of Pio's being broken, but this is not one of them. |
|
I think the problem resolves around wanting to play a game that is based on historic events. I, and apparently at least a few others, agree. In fact this is why we don't have mirror matches in automatch right now.
You can't say it does not matter because you do not think it does. Nor can the other side it is critical because it is historic. Both are opinions.
I think I will probably get bored of the game pretty quickly if they mix both armies, but that's just me and I have not played it yet so I don't know.
Side note: To those who are excited, Relic's ability to balance the current game has not convinced me that they can do so when they add two new armies! Really, really makes me concerned that the balance will be thrown out of whack for another year. Would make more sense to me to break the Soviet and Ost armies up now and offer them as entry points rather than create two huge new armies.
Just my thoughts. |
Watch the m3 scout car with flamer eng rush 2 squads of pioneers and see what happens:
Is this balanced?
The M3 might need a slight boost, but remember it can hit the field as the first unit so it does have to be vulnerable. The AC for the Ost takes a tech and a new building, assuming Ost built T1, which they almost have to do.
In the video the use of the car was very poor. Basically it was used to give engineers a chance to shoot. But remember because it was on the move it gave a -0.5 modifier to accuracy. Also the CE's were using a flame weapon on full health squads so the crit chances were low. It would be best to use the scout car at range to allow the flames to burn the pios, and the 0.50 cal to shoot as well. Also staying still makes the engineers more accurate.
Poor use of a unit does not mean the unit is not functioning properly. I do think the M3 deserves a slight boost, but this is not the video for that. |
|
I think as it stands Soviets feel very much like a faction that needs to push aggressively to prevent Ost armor. However, this is much harder now since they have few native assault units (units with automatic weapons, actually none without doctrine). All of their basic units lack automatic weapons as the game opens.
So I would agree that this patch is unbalanced, but then again when has any patch been balanced? They are working towards balance.
By the way, the world is not ending because COH2 is not balanced today. I should know I played Ost all the way through Windustry. |
|
Only played a few games last night, but game feels far more balanced. All games were 4v4 just for the record. Won three games as Ost, although I rarely play Ost with a team, and lost one was Soviet partially because I did not yet know how to use the new patch.
Penals are there now to deal with Gren spam, and they work. Giving them flames allows them to force off PG's when they are in cover. They do need to close with the Grens to kill them. They are useful though.
Scripts are very vulnerable now, but probably fairer.
AC is in a good place. It is useful in the right hands, but vulnerable.
Pio's are probably too good. I really do like that they can wipe squads up close, but they come so early it is hard to deal with. Feels like they have a point now.
CE's feel too weak. Slight boost to their rifles would be nice. (Side note my CE in green cover ran into a Pio which advanced through green cover. We both were forced away at the same time. I lost 3 models, he lost 2 almost, almost lost the other 2. Feels fair).
Soviets have to take care of their armor now. Ram seems really silly as a result. If you do a good job of taking care of your tanks though they start to shine.
I don't think grens of any kind should be able to build bunkers.
Soviet sniper seems ok still. Ost sniper seems useless.
Flank, flank, flank. Flanking with a unit is so rewarding now.
Soviets use a lot more munitions now. I would not expect to see people floating munitions with this faction now.
Vehicle pathfinding so much better.
Those are my thoughts right now. I will keep playing and coming up with more thoughts. |
"Pair up your conscripts so you can kite SMG unit to death". Meaning that you kite back to your base to prevent suprise attacks from rear. Meanwhile, another "SMG unit" is simply capturing important points on the map. Great!
Anyway, thanks for advice and keep posting! This way you help us to deal with this mess you guys created.
Pretty sure he was offering advice if you choose to just use scripts, which Agrens are designed to win against. They are supposed to handle scripts, that is their goal. It forces the Soviet player to build an mg or a scout car (or possibly penals now).
Can we all play nicer? If there is a problem in the patch discuss it and please post a replay, but if you just want to vent about how your pet unit is not as good as you want it to be I don't have the time. |
|
I have yet to play online, but in my short test against the computer the Ost army feels much stronger. I will see how it plays today.
I suspect that Pio's deserve a slight damage decrease, and will have more to say when I play against players today.
Infantry do die extremely quickly now. It is good, if you make a mistake you are punished. |
Oh, no more flamer halftrack rush? 
But i guess it's fitting as soviet will get the tech to hardcounter a flamer halftrack (T3/T4) a lot later
Basically, we can't say shit until after we played the new patch for some days 
I like this a lot, it rewards good play with HT's and lets them become very dangerous to flanking inf in the late game, but prevents the stupid suiciding into the base to wipe squads. |
I do have a concern about the fuel cost of t-3/ t-4 for soviets, 140fu for each, however its nothing to do with its comparison to the german tech.
My worry is this:
Guys builds tiger, rushes base. Now as it stands this is usually a waste, may get a squad or 2 before dieing and maybe a building at a little inconvenience, but over all its cost incurred to its damage done is a bad decision.
Now a tiger rushes base,. kills a t-3/t-4 building, bam! 140fuel damage done + the mp,. if it kills 2 of them bam! 280 fuel + mp damage done to a target that cannot move or fight.
Now that isn't such a bad return, add in a lucky squad wipe and your evens with cost, add to that to the fact it will cause you enemy micro and time to deal with it why wouldn't you do it?
Its a cost effective suicide that has a very very good chance of paying off. Loosing the mp and fuel cost of a tiger compared to the fuel cost of t3-t4 plus the engi's and time to build seem like a good trade to me.
It takes quite a while for a tiger to destroy base structures. If you cannot kill it before it does the damage that is your own fault. If a tiger is threatening to rush into your base retreat a conscript squad and get an AT gun if you have nothing else.
Also keep in mind tiger has to make it to your base. You should be able to damage the engine before it gets there and, at minimum, force it off. |
United States
![[AEF] Appleseed flag](/images/replay/ukf_flag.jpg)
Relic Entertainment
