Another option could be to give the gunner green cover always after the mg is setup (for all mgs) irrespective of where one sets it up (road exception if implementable). Could be tested, I guess.
If we have learn anything out of the the AT gun shield + crew behaviour, is that it doesn't work consistently at all.
Do we agree that deathloop is a bug in a first place and it should have been fixed ages ago? Start from that.
It's not a bug if it's working as intended. In initial design, there was no reason to give the Maxim or 120mm (IIRC) the same benefits as other support weapons of been able to teleport once the model carrying the weapon dies, because it had other boons to compensate for.
You can't just copy paste animations stances and behaviours between different units. It's also one of the reason we don't have female partisans in the game anymore after the release of WFA.
There's also a certain confusion regarding what people refer to as deathloop and the causes.
Deathloop on retreat vs deathloop because it fails to suppress. And the reasons can vary between the maxim performance, cover proliferation during the mid late game or enemy burst/focus lethality.
Movement speed penalties for Ostruppen is pretty dumb,and unprecedented, honestly.
While "stupid" it's not unprecedented in a certain way. RE with the anvil upgrade had speed debuff whenever they say combat.
A different kind of nerf could involve decapture/capture rate as well. Osttruppen originally started as way cheaper squads which capped at half the speed.
In this way you won't nerf the "defensive" nature of them, rather than the "i cap the whole map" kind of style.
Unfortunate. I know you can't get "new" animations into the game, but I was hoping you might have the ability to skip existing ones.
Its not possible to then, say, force a unit attempting to shoot at the gunner to instead fire at a crewman, even if they're out of range? Or, and this will sound very silly, have the gunner siphon HP from other crewmen when he's damaged? Sorry if these "solutions" sound a little ludicrous, I'm really not sure what's possible for the modding team.
Failing all that, two models being in front of the gunner i suppose would be the only solution? It's not exactly ideal, but anything is better than what's currently the case.
A good rule of thumb, is that anything that mimics abilities or behaviours which are already in the game is possible in theory unless state otherwise.
I don't think we have any kind of siphon ability nor that it would look well or be approved at all. Imagine using a sniper, hitting the gunner and suddenly another random model drops down. Same with say indirect fire.
Im surprised it isn't possible to provide a workaround to this. Is it not possible to either: Make the gunner less likely to be targeted than other models, transfer damage from the gunner to other models in the squad instead of himself, or in the worst case, just force models to teleport into the gunner's seat if the gunner is killed? I expect the latter may be against Lelic's "no jank" policy.
I guess i'm not exactly privy to precisely what modders can do, perhaps all these options are simply impossible/unfeasible.
It's been 7 years and even when Relic devs were in charge, it couldn't be fixed.
On teleport: it can't be done. The maxims is like a pak in this case. Once the model carrying the weapon dies, the movement stops and one model has to go pick it up.
On priority: weapon crew already have differentiate priority from the gunner. The problem is targeting and formation. If your only viable option to shoot at is the gunner (if you come from max range or if it's the first thing you are able to see) then it doesn't matter all the changes you had already applied.
On transferring dmg: we WC3 now bois. I'm thinking hard right now, but i don't think we have the tools to do that.
The best it can be done is to put 2 models in front of the Maxim gunner.
Yeah, true. This is more like a list in the middle. I picked these units base on all game modes(except for a few).
That been clarified, i disagree with some choices in general (Katyusha for example) while in some other cases it's a matter of the unit/ability itself or how it only appears on a single commander which is not meta.
Some things should never be meta but a "fun" choice. Ex: Encirclement or B4.
As for the opening post, we can all appreciate a bit of irony mixed up with truth in there. The problem is that people get their jimmies rustled too easily.
As far as future discussion goes, it would be better if at one point OP made pretty clear what points are really his main concerns and what were exaggerated for sarcasm purposes.
I think it's way easier what needs to be changed for OH for it to work both in 1v1 and teamgames compared to the SU thread which has far way worst broad problems.
I dont mind either thread tbh, both made good and bad points which are worth talking about imo and i dont get why people barely argue in this one but had a 50 page discussion under GiaA#s post
I think you can see the number of pages/post number for this thread and realise that plenty of comments had been made invisible. Kinda of an unspoken rule but the "owner" of a post decides how much "offtopic" and derailment can be allowed.
The other thread basically was left to run on it's owned, compared to this one.
Also people seems to have shifted discussing in the SB.
Being a dominant unit does not mean "only possible choice" A lStuart can be a dominant vehicle, but that doesn't mean you can't go AA HT
Well, you have to take a look at which faction those units belongs to.
Compare USF with Soviets.
The post below may have some discrepancies due to it been a pre patch values but the general idea still applies.
Compare the timing of the and cost to deploy of the AA HT vs M5 Quad.
USF early mid game get's a boost from the "free officer".
The alternatives ways to playing Soviets without T70 is bunkering down and expect nothing bad happens till you unlock T4. Expect the opponent not using any light vehicle at all.
I think you have seen suggestions/alternative builds on this thread. The one you put at the first post is not good though.
This is the thing, really. Arent clown cars still pretty good against OKW? Assuming they haven't built a Raketen for some reason.
You have to assume people not having a commander with PF as well. It's a high risk mid reward. On top of going for a build which offers poor map control, now you put more resources into a unit which can't cap and will lose any usage after 7 mins into the game. On 1v1 you will have muni and the upgrade ready around 3:30 (faster if u rush muni, have CE ready on your own territory, etc.) and you won't have too much more time before snares are unlocked. The best thing you can do is try to find isolated squads, cause with some focus fire, specially if SP are around, you can soft counter it till your truck is deployed.
T1 openings also make BHQ openings for OKW more viable as well, which makes them transition into Flak HQ much more easier.
I think it had enter the realm of cheese/pocket strat rather than normal/meta one. As long as you caught your opponent by surprise it might work, but against someone prepared or who knows how to deal with it, it might be not efficient.
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