Why Ostheer is OP

what are you trying to say exactly?

cause when you actually believe every point you made, im pretty sure you got more wrong than GiaA.
Both factions have OP stuff and this list doesnt change my opinion that soviet late game is broken, more so than ost late game.

Yes, GiaA ranted about soviets and not everything he said is true/ i can agree with... same with this thread.
Are you actually trying to discuss balance or just make a troll thread mocking other threads?

what are you trying to say exactly?

As the title says, Ostheer is OP and should be nerfed.

this list doesnt change my opinion that soviet late game is broken, more so than ost late game.

Considering you gave GiaA’s thread a 10/10 review I’m sure nothing here could possibly change your mind.

Are you actually trying to discuss balance or just make a troll thread mocking other threads?

So GiaA cries about Soviet mines and 7man Cons and he’s a genius, I complain about Osttruppen, 5man Grens and sniper and I’m a troll. Cool.

It doesn't matter if you're allied biased or axis biased, if you refuse to see things from the point of view of other factions you're all equally a part of the problem.

my point is that this thread proves that there is significant axis bias... hence balacing by popular opinion will clearly be skewed towards axis favor... in any case i think balancing must be done objectively with subjective input as a secondary in order to be free of biases...

Yes ostheer is OP, to some extend/scenarios
I didnt gave GiaA's thread a 10/10 review, atleast as far as i remember. The thing is, people already pointed out the points i disagreed with which isnt the case here, so i didnt feel like adding anything saying the same thing again.
correct me if im wrong, its been quite some time.

Youre not a troll for pointing out that ostruppen/5mn grens etc is OP but since you didnt argue about my critique about my thoughts it seems like you dont want to argue about them. Instead you sompared them to another stread....
so again: Are you actually trying to discuss balance or just make a troll thread mocking other threads?

Alot of ostheer stuff needs some changes, so does soviet stuff. i thought we are here to discuss what the major problems are

Youre not a troll for pointing out that ostruppen/5mn grens etc is OP but since you didnt argue about my critique about my thoughts it seems like you dont want to argue about them. Instead you sompared them to another stread....

I originally made this thread due to GiaA making a “soviets are OP” thread and you said on that thread that any counterarguments should include Osttruppen and healing, so instead I just copy pasted his thread concept onto Ostheer to both show why Ostheer really is OP and to simultaneously call out people for making bad claims due to bias, as is the case with GiaA.

I did not feel the need to argue against you because I found your disagreements to be reasonable, except maybe for the sniper point which is unthinkable to me that you’d disagree considering you know how easily Ostheer has knocked UKF out of the meta with the 5man Grens and sniper build.

I’m all for a civilized discussion with arguments, I have no intention of trolling anyone.

It seems that the original list of issues is severely out of date.

Most of the units on it have already been readjusted by the Shadow Council so arguing that the perfectly balanced units are OP/UP is an utter logical fallacy.

I hope that OP edits his/her list to better reflect the current state of the game

I main OST and that CE is OP thread and replies were proper facepalm m8.

It doesn't matter who you main. You can adore OKW and OST and still be quite open to balance discussions. I main USF and I love playing with it and I do admit that calliope does need some rework. Achpawel actually wrote a good idea back on that thread. I don't care who mains what, I only care that people do not spew BS about some units being OP or UP, when common sense tells you they are not.

It all goes back to that old "the losers will complain the most". Right now, axis are the biggest losers complaining about everything, from CEs to God knows what else, the recent 20 threads are a [non]living proof of that. There are people, you among them, that state facts and argument things intelligently...then there are the likes of some people that will just bury their head in the sand and yell AXIS/ALLIES OP.

I personally do not think OST as OP. They have their advantages and in teamgames they are a nuisance, especially late, but I've managed to win against top 10 Arrange Team back when I started playing USF competitively... That's why I laugh at people saying that USF is dead in teamgames. Each faction has it's strengths and weaknesses. From my point of view, the current game balance is excellent. Nothing really stands out. The 5man grens are strong but not unbeatable. OST late is very strong, with Brummbars and Panthers...gives them a hail marry attempt to close the game when behind, still...not unbeatable (this I speak for 2v2+ modes).
People just refuse to adapt to the conditions. They think that if they build a panther when they see the enemy fielding 2 jacksons or SU85s and then expects the same panther to somehow kill both tanks....well... then you see a complaint on this forum how Panther has low accuracy on the move and therefore is bad at killing tanks. Not mentioning above average HP, armour, penetration, speed, acceleration. Just "accuracy s***", please buff.

Losers gonna complain. Whether ally or axis..... Losers gonna complain...

I originally made this thread due to GiaA making a “soviets are OP” thread and you said on that thread that any counterarguments should include Osttruppen and healing, so instead I just copy pasted his thread concept onto Ostheer to both show why Ostheer really is OP and to simultaneously call out people for making bad claims due to bias, as is the case with GiaA.

I did not feel the need to argue against you because I found your disagreements to be reasonable, except maybe for the sniper point which is unthinkable to me that you’d disagree considering you know how easily Ostheer has knocked UKF out of the meta with the 5man Grens and sniper build.

I’m all for a civilized discussion with arguments, I have no intention of trolling anyone.

Yes, UKF suffers from sniper play, specially with 5man grens as backup but i think UKF has decent counters with the uc, fast aec, commandos, valentine, counter sniper. I guess youre right tho since you dont even need a sniper to counter usf with 5man grens while you do need it against ukf.
But still, on maps like langres, rails, crossing and other open long range maps UKF can actually fight against an ost sniper while usf can basically just blob.
There is no doubt 5man grens need a nerf and sniper in general are a fucking obnoxious unit design

I dont mind either thread tbh, both made good and bad points which are worth talking about imo and i dont get why people barely argue in this one but had a 50 page discussion under GiaA#s post

I dont mind either thread tbh, both made good and bad points which are worth talking about imo and i dont get why people barely argue in this one but had a 50 page discussion under GiaA#s post

I think you can see the number of pages/post number for this thread and realise that plenty of comments had been made invisible. Kinda of an unspoken rule but the "owner" of a post decides how much "offtopic" and derailment can be allowed.

The other thread basically was left to run on it's owned, compared to this one.

Also people seems to have shifted discussing in the SB.

As for the opening post, we can all appreciate a bit of irony mixed up with truth in there. The problem is that people get their jimmies rustled too easily.

As far as future discussion goes, it would be better if at one point OP made pretty clear what points are really his main concerns and what were exaggerated for sarcasm purposes.

I think it's way easier what needs to be changed for OH for it to work both in 1v1 and teamgames compared to the SU thread which has far way worst broad problems.