Reduce firing cone slightly, reduce sight range, scrap the OP bulletin, and make flanking more rewarding (received damage increased when flanked? is that possible?). There, balanced MG.
Also Molotovs being more consistent wouldn't hurt. Sometimes it barely tickles the target's health bar, other times it instantly roasts two guys. This unreliability really hurts flanking, since Conscript rifles take ages to decrew an MG42. |
As a primarily Soviet player, I think the OP's complaints ring hollow. All the necessary tools exist for Soviets to beat anything the Germans throw at them, but they aren't used well, I see way too many clown car spams into SU-85s. Conscripts are very capable in a fight and allow you to outcap your opponent; upgraded they're all the infantry you will ever need. Snipers, with or without clown car support, absolutely decimate Ostheer infantry so long as you support them right. Penals are great against buildings/PGrens and synergize well with T-34s and AT nades (satchel charge is your friend). Clown Cars get countered by 222s but it still has fairly high DPS and can serve as a cheap transport if nothing else; if it gets fausted you fail at playing this game. Maxims are still useful in a support role, and ZiS guns do their job well. I do think Soviet mortar could use an accuracy buff.
In the higher tiers, Soviets are very powerful. The new T-34 does its job well (I'd give it some more pen personally, but still). T70 is a murdermachine. SU-85s still utterly shit upon anything short of Panthers, and even then proper support makes them very tough to kill. SU-76 IS kinda useless, but Katyushas will allow you to smash blobs with ease. Guards are a great unit with good all-around capabilities, and shock troops massacre PGrens albeit they could use a cost reduction.
Now, I do agree MG42s are too easy to use and LMGs should require T2 or 3. Nerfing the MG back to 3 men seems a good idea, and maybe received damage increased if flanked. But the game is really better balanced than at launch, and even MG spam pales in comparison to the sheer amount of cheese Soviets used back then. |
I do agree MG42s need to be looked at. It's pretty silly that the Ostheer can easily park them and lock down half the map unless the Soviet player deploys superior micro or hard counters (M3, sniper). No micro is required to use MG42s thanks to their giant arc, almost instant suppression and survivability; unless it eats a molotov and stands sill, an MG crew than easily survive 10 seconds of sustained conscript fire point-blank. Which is honestly stupid.
If I manage to flank your 140 degree arc MG, I deserve to turn its crew into carrior fodder in short order. That's assuming it doesn't simply pack up and stroll away towards a group of grenadiers while the conscripts fire uselessly at them. Fortunately, it seems Relic agrees. |
I don't see Soviet snipers that much, but I definitely see a German sniper at least in 1/2 of the games I play, and it's annoying to kill with infantry because it disappears almost instantly after shooting.
You must be playing another game. In my last 20 games I can count on one hand the number of Germans who deployed snipers, both in 1v1 and 2v2. And I'd have fingers to spare methinks.
You're also kinda not supposed to kill it with infantry. Still, oorah conscripts, M3s, mortars and soviet snipers counter it. It's the most micro-intensive unit in the game; whereas when I get Soviet snipers, making them attack-move whenever there's German infantry in range works wonders. If a scout car appears? AT nade his arse. Surprise guards are also very trollish vs scout cars. |
I don't see what the problem is with the Soviet sniper...
The German sniper has better survivability until a Soviet sniper hits the field(which I don't see often)
You guys are just expecting hard counters for everything. The German sniper is much better but sacrifices the ability to countersnipe.
I mean, the German sniper fires faster, never misses, and is always camoed.
It retains camo, it's not always camoed. It has the same hit rate as the Soviet one. it does fire faster, but that's only a balancing act vs the bigger Soviet squads. Basically, apart from the camo which is situational, the German sniper is simply worse. There's a reason you almost never see german snipers, yet I see Soviet ones every 2-3 games. When I'm not building one. |
I never blamed molotovs for anything. If you want to know what I blame for defeats it's in order
- Forgetting about a unit that then gets gibbed by a nade
- Pgrens
- 222 ScoutCar
- MG42
- PzIV
All these units have clear counters.
PGrens get wrecked by M3s, snipers, shock troops, and T70s (to use only units available around the same time, let's not bring the KV-8 into this). They get held off by Guards, Maxims, Penals, PPSh conscripts, and T34s until you can get those hard counters out in earnest.
Scout cars get wrecked by guards, AT guns and Ooorah + nade. Also, 70 ammo is a lot, so it means you will have infantry dominance since he has to cut down on riflenades and LMGs.
MG42 is over the top as of now, I agree. But M3s, snipers, mortars (dat smoke), flanking penals can give you an egde. If he's stupid enough to put them in a house, dance around it while throwing molotovs. At worst, Ooorah around them until vehicles can sweep em up. It,s what i do against MG spammers, and it works almost every time.
PIV are easy to counter unless they reach critical mass (which means you've been outplayed). AT nades from the flank, button, AT guns, T-34s can be combined onto a good anti-panzer force, and of course SU-85s still shit all over them. I still would like the T-34 to have more penetration, and maintain that both AT guns should have their accuracy buffed a lot.
So, as a Soviet player, I can honestly say that a player's skill matters far more than his faction as of now. There are some imbalances, but not enough to make either faction clearly OP. You can't blame X unit before blaming your own skill. |
Yes, but molotov range is shorter. As I see it, molotov animation should be short enough to punish a rifle grenade.
And Conscripts have OOorah to get them into molotov range, not to mention the various way they can close the gap otherwise (M3 drop, Truesight use, mortar smoke, straight up vet). Assymetric balance, working as intended. Molotovs could maybe use a slight DPS increase, but all grenades in the game suffer from RNG. Sometimes they barely do damage; other times they blow up all but 1 men. That's why the Satchel charge is so powerful, there's no RNG shenanigans. If a guy is in range, he blows up, end of story. But molotovs and riflenades are reasonably balanced.
There are other, more pressing issues, and blaming molotovs for your defeat is to me a sign of bad play. I main Soviets and have no problem keeping my conscripts relevant except against a PGren rush cheese, and that is easily countered by T1 units. |
Another thing that must be addressed is the animation times on grenades. Molotov has a far longer cast animation than rifle grenade, so grens can actually fire theirs and then still evade the molotov. Considering how molotov has a much shorter range, how does that make sense at all?
Hm, no, their cast time is similar. You can easily see the grenadier kneel, aim, then fire a slow-moving projectile. Depending on distance, the ability takes 3-4 seconds to hit, which is very similar to the molotov. If you get hit by a riflenade it's your fault. The only grenade-like ability that's close to OP is the Penal's satchel charge, and that's more due to the unsavory combo of short fuse time, huge AoE and latency.
Also why I agree conscripts and penals could use some love, it's not like the situation is desperate. Depending on doctrine, PPSh conscripts or DP-28 guards (or both, it's not like Soviets lack ammo) can handle anything short of vetted PGrens, and even those run away like little girls when faced with shock troops or the all-powerful sniper. The only outstanding issue is the overly effective MG42, and the devs are looking into it. I'd personally bring it back to 3 men and nerf the suppression bulletin.
Apart from that, this patch is hardly a disaster for Soviets. SU-85s aren't as cheesy as they were (still a bit cheesy tho) and the T-34 can actually hurt armor albeit it could use a bit more penetration to make T3 viable. Only other units that still need a buff are At guns (for both factions) and maybe the Soviet mortar, as well as reducing shock troops to 400-420 MP. |
I'd rather get rid of its ability to auto-target a second squad even when not ordered. This is such a braindead idea, it allows even noobs to use their MGs effectively thanks to the massive arc. Increasing rifle damage at close range so that flanking is actually viable would be great too; nothing like getting behind an MG, seeing it pack and stroll around until grens arrive and the conscripts are forced to retreat, and the MG squad lost 1-2 men to 10 seconds of sustained fire. They're way too easy to use atm. |
Ostheer;
-PzIII tank in T3. A lightish vehicle that can pack a decent punch would be a nice addition to their arsenal. Make it better AT than AI so it isin't a copy/paste of the T-70, and move PzIV to T4.
-Fallshirmjaeger infantry OR Brandeburger commandos; basically, doctrinal elite infantry. Probably long-ranged, dedicated AI with a cloak. The PE Falls in COH are a good template.
Red Army;
-KV-1 tank added to T3, doctrinal upgrade allows the flamethrower so it becomes a KV-8. I feel like the Soviets could use a linebreaker tank, what they have is just too fragile. Give it a crappy gun like IRl to balance it.
-Partisans; doctrinal infantry, weak in direct combat (think Ostruppen) but experts at distruption. Can cloak, lay cheaper demo charges, and plant those nifty PE booby traps on points and buildings for maximum trollitude. Also gain a big first strike bonus on taking cloak, making them useful for ambushes but crap at sustained combat. As in, they lose to Pioneers out in the open, but can challenge LMG grens if they ambush.
I only added units that would be viable in actual gameplay. Yes Jadgpanthers are cool but their role is already taken by the Elefant. |