PAK 43s are incredibly situational, as well as doctrinal. A mortar or sniper can decrew them very easily, they're even more vulnerable to flanks than normal AT guns, and did I mention that a doctrinal unit can't possibly be the only true counter to a non-doctrinal one? |
The SU-76 should be support AT; I say increase its penetration and accuracy vs vehicles, not damage because it's a bit too spammable. Its barrage would serve as effective AI. That way it can't take out Panzers itself but it can serve as a mobile AT gun as well as counter-blob in a pinch. Along with an AT gun buff and a T-34 buff against vehicles, it should leave the Soviets with enough options that nerfing SU-85s wouldn't destroy the meta. |
Son now you complain about soviets actually using combined arms? WTF did you expect? Because you got a panther doesn`t mean you can trololol the game to victory. And again I will state 1 thing, go learn tactics. You can use mines, panzerfaust.... AT guns.
Mines: 60 ammo, relies on luck, hard to place because any decent Soviet player will pressure you with his SUs and make laying them very hard.
Panzerfaust: 15 range on a unit that has no Hussein Bolt button. If this manages to hit any of your vehicles, learn to play.
AT guns: PaKs suck and have almost no accuracy at long range.
As for combined arms, the Soviet's is just much more powerful than the German's . Once you got a sniper, guards and a SU-85, it becomes an extremely tough nut to crack; AT guns and shrecks are nullified by snipers, Guards prevent any flanking attempt and are good AI a well, and SU-85s of course blast any armor into oblivion. Assuming equal cost, germans will have a P4, shreck PGrens and a sniper. Sniper gets countersniped, PGrens get reverse-trolled and picked off by guards. P4 gets blown to pieces by the SU-85 if it doesn't flee as soon as his support is dead. I say this as a primarily Soviet player.
In short; you have no idea what you're talking about, your contributions are biased and worthless. |
The Panther is also for all intents and pruposes a tank destroyer, seeing as it's nearly worthless against infantry. That's a fine role, but it should definitely beat a SU-85 1v1. It's more expensive, comes later and has the same role, there is no reason that the SU-85 can simply reverse to destroy anything short of an Elefant. Panther is fine, SU needs a nerf; buffing the Panther now risks making the T-34 even more obsolete than it is now. In closed beta the Panther was what the SU is now, a godmode unit that makes any and all opposing armor useless merely by existing. It shouldn't go back to that. |
Yeah it was sluggish (awful turning) and fragile, but fast. I think the SU85 should be similar in feel.
It was much more fragile than the SU-85 (if an M8 for close it was toast, never mind a Wolverine or Sherman) and couldn't spot for itself. I always found it was actually a bit weak as most tanks could slug it out and win against it; no need to nerf the SU to its level.
I kinda like the idea actually. This would make the SU more vulnerable to ambushes, flanking, Truesight shenanigans and Panzerwerfers. Attacking from the front would still be a mistake, however. |
I would not moe the t34 to t4 no, maybe the t70. but the point remains the same the teching system is screwing with balance.
I also dislike the fact the SU 85 counters all (bar the elephant) but what would soviets do if the panther counters the su 85, the only mobile AT soviets have. if however the panther could kill the su 85 handily and the t34 was in the same building then you would need both tanks to kill off the panther.
Combined arms or heavy call-in to kill a Panther, just like the Amis did in COH1 where it worked very fine. SU-85 or multiple ZiS + ram, button, mines or AT-nades. Panthers are supposed to be hard to kill, they're late-game, end of the tech tree dedicated AT tanks. They should not lose to SU-85s bar a micro mishap from the German player, because then what's the point of even building a panther? Chew on T-34s even more?
I think it bears repeating, but when a unit single-handedly counters Ostheer's T3 and T4 by itself, there's a big problem. It's not just the speed. It's the accuracy, fire rate, armor, availability; this TD has too much going for it.
Also, I barely noticed the scatter changes save for the Brumbar. That thing is now a sniper that lobs mortar shells, it's awesome. Very much impractical because a T34 can solo it, but awesome nonetheless. Other tanks I've barely seen a difference, IS-2 is still underpowered, T-70 still owns infantry at range, AT guns still miss 3/4 of the time, P4 still beats infantry.
New HtD is balanced. It gives conscripts an edge but doesn't allow them to win all 1v1 engagements even against PGrens. |
Thread: Strafe.1 Aug 2013, 19:42 PM
Sure but sov inf should still take some damage. I meam they are taking ju87 bullets to the dome
And tanks can eat multiple 88mm shells in the face. It's called abstractions for the sake of gameplay. |
I agree with your post, i was stated a reasoning not expressing how i think it should be, the only problem i see with nerfing the su but buffing the t34 is the fact that you will -never- have both in a competative 1v1, my suggestion is to slightly nerf the su 85 and move it to t3, that way it still has the same timing but being less effective means a good secound tank would be the t34 (which should get a slight tweak to its cost effectiveness).
Or throw make the teching system alot less dumb, yes i really dislike only being able to use 50% of my units per game)
And make the T-34 T4? Who would build it when you can have powerful AI (T70) and powerful AT (SU-85) in one building? Doesn't seem like a good solution. T34 should have its AT ability buffed somehow (the devs have said on their cast that upgun was not in the plans however...), SU-85 needs a big nerf, and ZiS could use more accuracy, along with the PaK. I'm really sick and tired of having Ostheer's tier 3 and 4 countered by a single unit. SU-85 should definitely lose 1v1 to a panther, what,s the point of building one otherwise? |
Those things are really, really OP.
Scenario: 1 Panther + an MG + PAK vs 1 SU-85 + 1 Guards.
I slug it out because getting close to buttoning guards is suicide and fleeing is not an option because losing my PAK and the VP means gg. Result? PAK misses thrice, hits once, gets deflected once. Panther misses twice, hits twice, gets deflected once. Panther has almost no health, retreats, gets blasted while the PAK misses once again. 1 Panther and a PAK fail to kill an SU-85. How is this possibly balanced?
SU needs its vison cone reduced/removed, armor decreased by a lot, and speed decreased (2 of those 3). It's not a glass cannon when it can slug it out with 2 dedicated AT units and win, including one that comes later and is more expensive. Sorry.
In case someone calls German bias, I'm a 60% Russian player. And as soon as I get a SU-85 and guards/AT nades to screen it, I know armor is no longer a concern. It will blow any Panzer thrown its way to bits easily simply by reversing. Any attempt at flanking is met with angry Russians with a Hussein Bolt button and AT nades/magical button, when it's not purely stopped by mines. Beyond a huge micro failure, the thing is unkilable. It needs a nerf, along with a T-34 buff to help. It's simply not good balance when Soviets need to rely on a completely OP unit in order to compensate for their otherwise weak AT. |
Thread: Strafe.31 Jul 2013, 18:35 PM
I still lost a vet 2 sniper squad to a passing strafe. 120 ammo is still a bit cheap considering how powerful it is, especially when you look at the other aerial support and find it's, in all cases, more expensive, less good and unlocked later. |