Vet 3 isn't as godly as it was before, but a Vet 3 lmg gren squad you can get for a ridiculously cheap price (55mp/20fuel) one minute into the game will murder 2 conscript squads. It's impossible to beat that commander with a normal commander unless the other player is far far worse than you.
Aye. Twenty fuel for uncontested map control is a cheap price indeed. Only decent counter is a sniper, but that leaves you wide open to several strategies (FHT, AC, countersniper with a vetted one). And anyway, a doctrine that forces you into a build order to counter it is a problem in itself.
And, again, it's not like Soviet industry is much better. T-34s at the 6:30 mark anyone? How stupid is that? |
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Yeah, both these new commanders are ridiculous.
Soviet industry allows you to pump out T-34s at 6:30... Without having any fuel point. Just 3-4 strat point, no need to even build caches. In 1v1 it's manageable, if bullshit, but in team games it's just game-breaking. Map control? Who cares, I can field 3 T-34s by the 9 minute mark even if I don't control the fuel.
Elite Troops ain't much better. Instant vet 3 grenadiers hand you map control on a silver platter, and once you get the vet 2 P4 your opponent can kiss his army goodbye unless he already got SU-85s. And of course the Tiger Ace which is just a balance nightmare.
It's pretty obvious that, by putting these OP commanders at 4$ apiece, they're just making a cash grab. I'm very dissapointed. And the rest of the changes are so good, too! But as soon as anyone in the game has those commanders, the game devolves into cheese unseen since launch. |
For 20 fuel, its valid.
The cost is so severly crippling to teching and eventual armor.
Vet isnt that great anymore. 20 fuel however is a severe setback.
A single Maxim will deal with Vet infantry, as will they die just as fast to a mortar, as will a sniper vet even faster by depleting an even more expensive unit. Basically that Vet doesnt do jack shit for you except against infantry in a vacuum. It doesnt help you one bit vs anything else except small arms combat.
Yes, a single unit may be more effective, but at 20 fuel, its a bitter cost that bites you back, hard, as the game progresses.
20 fuel is little compared to obtaining early map control. You underestimate the power of having a vet 3 unit (especially grenadiers) against vet 0 conscripts. They're basically immune to enemy fire unless they step on a molotov for 10 seconds, and the accuracy bonus means they don't even need LMGs to deal tons of damage. Maxims don't suppress them fast enough to be effective, and arrive too late anyway (unless you use the other pay to win commander, I guess). Snipers are a counter, but you're basically pigeonholded in T1-T4 against that doctrine. If you don't have snipers, veteran infantry crushes your conscripts, and if you don't have SU-85s, veteran tanks and the Tiger Ace crush you period. |
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Instant vet 3 grenadier.That is all.
Please make it 1-2 CP at least, so that it doesn't allow to steal map control early game. |
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It's a shame, because the changes to veterancy and buildings are really good. But then they have to introduce two overpowered commanders that throw everything into the gutter. The free commanders aren't bad, Luftwaffe is a big increase in ressources but it's manageable, Partisans are a poor man's shock troops, but Soviet Industry is T70 rush land, and Elite Units is just too powerful in general. |
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In 1v1 it's very strong. You can easily get a gren squad to vet 3 immediately, and what you lose in fuel (because honestly, 55 mp is nothing) you gain in a super-unit that can melt conscripts on sight, doubly so with an LMG/G43 thanks to the new accuracy buff on vet. This allows you to gain the upper hand in map control easily. Snipers are a counter... Unless you're on a shit map like Semois where you might as well lay down and die.
On vehicles it's... Also very powerful. Making that P4 an instant vet 2 basically nullifies it's weakness to T-34s, and at this stage of the game 20 fuel is not much. Still beatable thanks to AT guns and such, but it's kind of a long shot if your opponent knows what he's doing.
The Tiger Ace is basically there to seal the deal in contested 1v1's. You kill it or it kills you. I managed to destroy it once thanks to a lucky Katyusha barrage exterminating my opponent's infantry while the big 'un got a critical engine from stepping on a mine, but the other time the thing just barreled through my defenses. If you don't have T4 or a doctrinal superheavy it's very, very hard to kill. Your best bet is to hope for a mine or a successfull ram. So basically, pray to the RNG gods. Yeah... |
I can see a lot of people breaking their PC's, quitting the game and having rage attacks when their noob teamate pulls out Tiger Ace in 4v4 (if it cuts income to entire team)
Didn't know that one. Man, it means that if one teamate uses it, the entire team might as well. |
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Well, I can already tell that these two commanders are pay to win after 2 games lol.
Elite units allow you to absolutely steal map control by vetting grenadiers and have them mowing down anything in their path. Once they're vet 2 with the G43 and the new accuracy buff, Soviet infantry pretty much evaporates even if it's also vetted. This pretty much makes PGrens obsolete along with a lot of other German early game units. Fast maxims could be a counter I guess, but beware the P4 that's going to shoot to vet 2-3 as fast as possible making T2-T3 fairly useless. Starting to get back on your feet? What a shame, here's a buffed up supertiger to base-rush you. I was wrong about this being mostly usefull in team game, the Ace can single-handedly seal a contested 1v1.
Soviet industry ain't much better. Hope you like T70 rushes and easy repair. Oh, and the buildings going up pretty much instantly allows for nice map control bonus as well as super-fast Maxims or M3s.
I mean, AssGrens and Osttruppen were bad enough, but this stuff seems to go above and beyond even that. Perhaps that's why they're 4$ apiece. |
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It's going to be mostly used in team games I assume. In 1v1, if you deplete all your ressource income and then have your Tiger disabled and/or your Pios killed, you're basically dead. Not to mention that you pretty much need to baserush since your opponent will have a field day with VPs.
We'll have to see exactly how overpowered it is. If it really is ''2 tigers'' (as in, twice the HP, twice the dmg, ect.) then yeah it's basically going to be an utter terror. What I fear is the Ace being used by an already slightly winning German player to basically stomp his opponent with no chance of comeback. A unit like that with a complete army backing it up would be invincible.
I foresee much laying of mines, eh. |
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So if I get this right, vehicles will no longer get massive received damage bonuses turning half-tracks into invincible monsters?
If so, then it is a good day. Also funny how similar this all is to the leaked patch notes. |
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