I think a cost increase for cons and grens would be a bad idea, as it would make games more stale when units are specifically being chosen at a higher mp rate, as reinforcing, moving, and capping would take forever.
I don't think this would be a bad thing. I find games to be too fast-paced already, with each player having something like 4 units and half the map capped before first contact. It doesn't have to be as slow as COH's start, but stemming down the cons/gren spam can only be a good thing IMO. I'm starting to be sick and tired of the metagame being a tank rush, and higher MP costs could help with that. |
Fyi Eupolemos has 0 Ost games played.
My Sov W/L is better than his.
He has 81 games total as Sov in 1v1, with no Ost.
And he has now even uninstalled the game.
I know how much you guys like that kind of stuff, how you value the input of such players highly, so have at him.
Atleast I now play Sov. And am infact enjoying it very much with a pretty good W/L.
Just now had many lols with 7 Muni Mines and Dusches. I am enjoying myself immensely.
You are rank 60 000 with Ostheer after 120 games (bad) and you barely have 10 Soviet games.
Simply put, you have no fucking business crapping on the stats of anyone.
Here's mine in case you enter a hissy fit about how I only play Soviet http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198006923785
@ Mazarin: I would have also prefered the M3 to be a jeep-like low-impact vehicle than the all-inn cheesy unit it is currently. Firing outta a halftrack was fine when the Panzer Elite did it back in CoH, but in a faction that has snipers and flamers, having a very early infantry halftrack is a poor decision to me.
As for increasing cons/gren cost, I'm all for it. 240 MP is a bit cheap for a full-fledged infantry squad. And it may make Penals and Guards more attractive, it seems I barely see those these days. |
Yes, clearly this group of haters are some of the most constructive, respectful, informed and good posters we have here, who's hard work is completely destroyed by what I post.
En elite crew who are here to save the board from the evil Nullist. A crack team, with guys like Moonchild, who has the balls in Shoutbox to publically ridicule the way Marcus says "Five, four, tree, two, one" in his charming italian accent. LeMazarin, whos contributions have been so vitriolic they poison any discussion he partakes in, which have thankfully been VERY few and months in between. And Eupolemos. The guy with zero Ost matches himself, but who likes to claim others are uninformed and full of bullshit.
Even here, in a thread that as if it was not sufficiently derailed, only 1 page after I post a test replay that I and Akula made, using our own time to do it, its never too late for these guys to gang up and jump on the hate train by making personal insults, out of nowhere and completely unsolicited, in the finest GR-style spirit.
Stand up gentlemen, and give applause to these heroes.
To you haters, even though you have no restraint, and try to present yourself as some sort of majority. You aren't. Your just a few angry guys, most of whom I've proven wrong in a balance discussion at one time or another, who are now trying to get a punch in side-ways. I receive more than enough feedback both on the boards in terms of agreement from other posters, as well as in PMs both here and on Steam, to know that what I write is sound enough. I dont need to please guys like you, nor do I have any intent to do so, particularly with how utterly disrespectful you yourselves are. Try a civil, respectful and constructive approach, and you will find me more than happy to reciprocate. Until you are ready to act like normal people, stop talking about me, or to me.
If you don't like my posts, don't read them. Nobody is forcing you to.
I get the feedback I need from people I respect and who are reasonable and rational.
Aside from that, can Mods please clean up this thread?
*scoff*. Says the guy who makes ad hominem attacks on everyone's stats as soon as he is able to yet cries when people bring up that his own suck, and I'm not even getting into the 10 years old ''u man bro'' drivel. I'm surprised you're able to even type with that Elefant-sized chip you have on your shoulder.
Going into a more productive direction, from what I hear the beta has several surprises cooked up for us balance-wise. This is good and we'll what gives in due time, but I still think any balancing effor will end up being redundant so long as the current DLC model exists. No matter how diligent the balance team is, if the commander designer(s) keep throwing shit like Soviet Industry and the Tiger Ace at us, I'm going to stop playing this game altogether. And from what we've seen of Relic livestream images, the tide of ridiculous DLC commanders is not about to stop. Sure, that doesn't mean it will be like that at release, but I still fear.
On the other hand, I feel that the 500 mp start was a good decision after all. It makes the game too fast-paced for my taste, but that is overshadowed by the gain in possible builds, especially for Soviets. So I trust in the balance team; I just don,t trust the commander designer (s) anymore. |
nah, first of all this happens when you had no extended LoS; but conscripts will always get suppressed, as soon as you see them hitting the ground pack the mg if you are in molotov range and reposition a few steps back, I do it all the time and it's an easy way to dodge the molotv and fend them off.
The real issue to me is this scenario that happens all the time:
Grens+MG vs 2xCons.
Cons 1 gets suppressed in mtv range, you have to reposition to dodge molotov as I said above, while Cons 2 didn't get suppressed and closes in, waiting for you to reposition and throw mtv: you are forced to retreat the mg leaving your grens in 2vs1
This is counterable.
Have your grens fire at the conscript that is not being fired at by the MG. Once the first squad is pinned (or suppressed far enough from the fight), immediately move the MG. Ignore the guys on the ground; they will stay that way for about 10 secs. Unpack the Mg and start moving it. The Soviet has two choices for his molotov; get in range of the grens, which gives the MG time to reposition and suppress them too, or run after the MG which leaves them open from more grenadier fire. Either way, the second squad should have to retreat fairly shortly due to losses/suppression, just as the first gets out of being pinned and now faces a 2v1 scenario. If your grenadier has a LMG, it's not even a contest.
I've done this several times. It gets tricky when 3 units are involved on both sides since it's harder to dodge a molotov, but it's definitely doable too. Keeping your MG firing at a pinned unit is a waste; you should reposition it as soon as you can to combat a flank.
Also, if your opponent has 5 conscripts, laugh and punish him with PGrens/a FHT. It's not a great build I find. |
2 units charging head on should not be able to take out an MG imo. it should require flanking.
Meh, so long as a player is good enough to have one unit take fire while the other one charges forward, an unmicroed MG should lose. And in this scenario the Ostheer player can still retarget the 2nd unit and suppress it too in some cases. But even in vCOH, leaving an MG alone was begging for it to be flanked and decrewed, and in that game they died much more easily. The only real difference between the two is that conscripts have Ooorah, which I still think should not be unlocked at first (perhaps once one or both upgrades have been purchased?). Oorah really helps with flanking or even assaulting from the front. A bit too much I find. |
Never meant to be? It always was, even from the beginning.It didn't get nerfed until soviet fanboys started crying about how they couldn't run straight in its face and kill it. An mg could hold its own if set up properly. The whole point of the mg was to deal with mass infantry. Now it cant even deal with one from the front, . If 2 inf squads run up to it from the front, it will only be able to suppress one unless they were blobbed up. What kind of weak sauce is that. Whats the point of even building one now?
''set up properly'' meaning ''pointing it in the general direction of the enemy base and not having to worry about infantry in that area ever''. It was a very low-skill unit to use back in the day. It's not supposed to be like this. An Mg should suppress one unit, and be helpless against 2 unless it repositions or is supported (unless those units bunch up on top of each other, of course). A lone MG is most definitely not meant to defeat an infantry-heavy strategy, that would be silly and that's exactly why the doctrinal Soviet MG is overpowered. |
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Soviets may have a slight early game advantage, but apart from OP commanders (elite troops industry, Soviet defense to a slightly lesser extent) the game is pretty balanced overall. It still has several design problems (too RNG focused, armor arrives too fast, rifles don't do enough damage, blizzards slow the game down, commander system sucks by defintion) but the balance team has been pretty diligent, moreso than in any other Relic title I'd say. Ostheer is most definitely not pathetic, and saying the faction you chose causes you to lose illustrates only one thing; you need to get better.
And I say this as a guy who playes both factions, too. |
I disagree with reading way too much into Andy's play. He's actually using MG42s as intended, which is because MG42s were intended to be used with support, any support, doesn't matter if it happens to be another MG42.
And, it's clear that the Relic designers are now intending that all MGs require micro to use effectively, since previously the MG42 could act without micro, or support. How much micro or support is needed is an issue that should be looked at by people with more time than I.
Even the Maxim, despite it being pretty good at suppression, requires you go get a narrow firing cone on the enemy. Sure, it is quick to setup and breakdown, but you still need to get it pointing in the right direction.
Heck, one of the major complaints of the Soviet Defensive commander is the DSHKs go against that design intent to require micro. Then again, it is a defensive commander.
Which is perfectly logical really. It's a continuation of its intended role as far back as vCOH. MGs were never meant to be used alone to guard some far-off place, they were meant to be a crucial unit that you support to great effect. The anomaly is not the current MG; it was the pre-nerf MG that could suppress two units in its large arc of fire with barely any micro from the German player's part. The fact that it's an MG doesn't mean it should sit in one place and destroy anything on legs that come at it. The repositioning game is and should be a key part of MG play.
Now, again, it still needs a buff. But a small one only. |
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It indeed needs a suppression buff, and perhaps a rotation increase. Bottom line is, a conscript squad should never be able to OOrah from the front of an MG and be able to molotov. It's infrequent, but it does happen, especially if there's patch of yellow cover on the way. And it quite simply shouldn't. Apart from that, it's still a useful unit and a core part of my German builds. Just never, ever leave it alone and it will stop even shock troops dead in their tracks, something grens can never do. And at 4 men, it's still far more survivable than ye old vCOH MG42.
About riflenades against Maxims, I've had very conflicting experiences; sometimes the grenade barely hurts the squad despite landing straight on their faces, other times I've had a 5-men Maxim crew wiped out in one hit. The damn thing is just way too RNG-based. But the idea that anything short of shock troops, and even then, can happily eat riflenades is just wrong. Even losing 2 models on a conscript squad guarantees defeat in a 1v1 vs grens. |
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Yes, of course, anyone who dares disagree with the Great Nullist is obviously trolling and needs to l2read like the nubs they are. Get over yourself, and in the meantime I'll leave you to your flailing around.
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