I agree with CieZ to a degree. In the hands of a good player Jacksons are very fearsome indeed. You don't need any other AT tool when you get them really, save maybe for At nades.
I do think they're not as absurdly overpowered as he makes them out to be. Against a German player who slowly advances his panzers without support, yeah they will tear shit up. But on the offensive or against an AT gun screen they struggle.
And Relic, please fix their damn target priority. Tank destroyers have no business targeting a lone pioneer over a half-destroyed Panther. |
133 HPs per model doesnt drop like other infantry. Especially in Green cover. I have done similar things with Obers but I did lose models. I calculated one engagment against a Soviet player where I lost three models after inflicting 860MP damage to him.
They are silly on the power scale. I think they are fine with the LMG but the cover ignoring STG is just LOLWTF?
But then again OKW is hurting on resources so i guess its supposed to be this way.
With cover being equal, I found that double-BARs rifles with vet 3 beat vet 0-1 Obers and are a match until vet 3, at which point they seem to start losing. Three vet 3 rifles with double BARs is an ungoldy amount of DPS, and unless they were standing out in the open while the Obers were in solid green cover, I see no way they can lose this fight.
Now, my testing is not scientific, but I've face Obers quite a few times. And vetted double BARs rifles do a lot of damage to them, as they should.
But yes, the cover-ignoring on the STG44s needs to go away, as does the bonus against retreating units. There is no need to have Obers break fundamental standards of CoH infantry play. If you want infantry that squad-wipes on retreat, grab more Sturmpioneers. |
Yeah, me too. Unless the Osts were vet 5 in green cover, I have a very hard time seeing them eat the DPS of 6 vetted BARs and a grenade. They're powerful but they still drop like any other infantry.
Eh, I actually found that flamers, if they can get close, put a very nice dent on their health bars. Sure, it's a very niche use, but something to consider. Perhaps vetted Rifles with flamers would be more effective against them. God I want the Rifle Company commander. |
Rifle Company offers a good lategame in the form of already vetted Rifles and the Easy Eight which seems like a slightly cheaper Panther from what I've gathered. of course the problem is actually getting the damn commander in the first place.
Jacksons are also excellent tank destroyers and howie Stuarts are mini-ISUs that can rip infantry apart. Apart from the manpower drain and lack of good heavy tanks apart from one company, US lategame is decent I find. |
Maxims are worst than other MGs at countering blobs, but that's a required by-product of its insane mobility. Soviets have many other ways to counter blobs; ZiS barrage, mortars, kiting T-34/T70, KV-8, Shocks in some cases, demo charges, Katyusha if RNG favors you, and all of their doctrinal tanks pummel infantry. If you get an ISU, your opponent can kiss all his blobs goodbye in an instant. I have a way harder time countering blobs as US than as Soviets, albeit I've found the Stuart howie is pretty damn good vs them. |
One thing I noticed is that the crew on that thing seems superhuman. I once cornered one and it took my Shocks a good while to decrew it; Conscripts barely even scratched them even at close range. I'm not certain if they actually are tougher than regular crews, but somehow they seem so. |
The thing is, while on paper paras are good, in practice they are less useful than Obers, Shocks or other late-game infantry I find. The paradrop, unlike the instant spawning of the Falls, is not a big advantage since it takes some time as well as a clear landing zone. Having to sink ammo into an upgrade for a unit that also costs 380 MP upfront, as well as wait until that upgrade takes effect in order to make it truly combat effective, reduces its instant usefulness. At 3 CP, they come later than Shocks which are the closest doctrinal equivalent, in some cases too late for them to start accumulating veterancy before their peers/counters emerge. They also don't seem to get veterancy bonuses that are all that good save for the self-heal; that's, I think, the dealbreaker against Obersoldaten who get crazy vet bonuses.
I mean, don't get me wrong they're good, but I would not say they overperform at all. They also really overlap with rifles. I'd be more comfortable with giving them a choice for Recoiless Rifles, a low-damage but high-penetration infantry AT option like in vCoH. Trade it for the LMG IMO, make the Thompson go to 4 men and maybe increase its cost. So they serve clear roles; dedicated AT or close-combat assault troops. Maybe toss in an extra ability or something. |
US tanks are fine. Sherman is a good all-rounder and the Jackson shreds armor so long as its well microed. I do would appreciate a Pershing somewhere in the mix in the future, a heavy tank would be nice. Or make the Easy Eight non-doctrinal. |
Yeah the US howie has piss poor range, barely better than a mortar it seems, and abysmal accuracy. Even when I fire into a crowded central town in Semois it barely got a kill.
Meanwhile the IG 18 snipes infantry at quasi mortar range, destroys light vehicles pretty fast and can even damage medium tanks. For 80 MP more than a normal At gun, that's really a bargain. |
Agree with halftrack going T3, as an anti-blobbing tool. Nerf its anti-vehicle power a bit too.
Agree with pack howie going T2, but it needs to either get a cost reduction or a buff, because it's probably the worst arty in the game right now.
Riflemen could use a slight DPS decrease. We'll see how it works after that. Given that they are the only serious non-doctrinal infantry of the faction sans captain/LT, as well as the only US early game combat unit until 50+ gas is spent, they should be good. Just maybe not quite as good as they are. Buff their grenades in compensation, it's one of the worst ressource sink in the game.
Disagree on grenadier buffs. They come from a building with 3 other units and scale very, very well into late game with powerful veterancy and the LMG. They don't need buffs, especially since it would throw the Ostheer-Soviet matchup into chaos. |