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Either the automatch is very kind to me, or I'm playing in an alternate reality, or my definition of ''widespread'' is not the same as yours. Since option 2 is probably out, and I otherwise face cheese strats from time to time (Volks blob, rifles blob, double sniper, Stug E spam, ect.), I'm gonna go with option 3 and say Maximspam is way more rare than some people try to make others believe. It's a bad strat used against bad players by bad players. |
Of course you defeat maxim spam 1 vs 1 ,and i can do so as well. it doesnt mean however that this unit is not over performing .. also you only list ost strat against it but no okw strats. thats because the okw has far less tools available then the ostheer. if a support unit is spammed over the regular infantry then something is wrong with it period.
I don't play OKW so I can't comment on them. They do, however, have an early light vehicle as well as infantry that does a ton of damage if they close the distance, and upon reaching vet 1 Volks are already pretty damn tough. They might have less tools, but I doubt they are helpless with a semi competent player. One thing I do see where they might have a hard time is early garrison clear, perhaps giving Sturms an incendiary grenade or somesuch would help. Or some smoke when a tier is built, that might help more.
And I'll just re-iterate this here; I very rarely see Maximspam, 2x Maxim 2x conscript is a much more common and much better, flexible BO. I wouldn't mind Soviet weapons team taking a bit of a durability nerf, but in the Maxim's case it needs to be comboed with greater scalability or AoE suppression within its cone. It just sucks at stopping blobs of any kind, especially late game. |
2vs2 players do not understand the problems of 1 vs 1 issues. maxims become less useful as more infantry squads appear. in 2vs 2 they have less impact then 1 vs 1 where early game dps is low enough for the maxim to be op.
the maxim is the only unit in the entire relic franchise that can be spammed while its a support weapon. this is a major mistake and needs to be addressed by reducing the maxim squad from 6 to 4 man.
Rifles are fine however. early game power or not combined arms works well against them.
I regularly beat maximspam in 1v1. I haven't seen a single good 1v1 player ever complain about them either. There are many ways to counter it and maximspam has very little scaling, so once you get your T3 rolling he's toast. Before even that, good MG42 placement, superior micro, buildings, riflenades, mortar HT, normal HT, mortar, sniper all counter Maxims and are all available in T2 or earlier. If maxim is to be down to 4 men, then it needs an AoE suppression buff so that it can actually do its job as an HMG and suppress more than a lone vet 0 grenadier.
As for the thread, I agree with a good part of those, but we surely shouldn't put all of them in the game at once. Sweeping buffs like that wouldn't be good for the meta, I think. The Panther and overall teching changes are the most urgent, after that buff PGrens, Osttruppen and 221. See how the faction does from there, because Ostheer at the moment is still powerful. |
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I still build it from time to time. It's great if you need to reinforce your frontline, or get a unit to a hotspot, or beat a heavy Maxim user by delivering LMG grens or PGrens behind his wall. However, you'd better have a doctrine with smokescreen if you don't want it to be scraped by the first T-34 that comes out.
I certainly see it far more then the Soviet HT. |
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It really needs love. Putting Panther to the OKW one's standards would be a start, perhaps with more accuracy on the move (it's supposed to be a tank hunter, isn't it?).
Brumbar is always going to be a niche unit. Maybe increase AoE or accuracy so that it reliably hurts infantry, but I don't want it becoming a squadwipe machine either.
Panzerwerfer could use a cost reduction, since it ate the nerf along with the Katyusha for some reason.
Reducing the building's cost along with the above could be a start. Then again, the Tiger is so easy to use and still better economically that it would probably still overshadow T3. I don't think the problem will be solved until call-ins in general get a rework.
Also, completely agree with Lucas Troy, Relic has indeed favored balance between factions as opposed to balance within factions. It makes sense, but can make for a dull metagame and they should look at it. |
Is pak43 affected by smoke?
Yes: Then buff the unit.
No: Then let it as it is. Being a laser guided AT weapon against which you can't cover in any way is fine for 500mp.
I never liked the idea of it shooting throught buildings. I find it poor design.
My suggestion would be buff it but being only able to shoot things in its LoS. (Avoiding terrain collision, of course)
The thing, being immobile, requiring LoS would severely gimp it on many maps. Given how claustrophobic most of CoH2's maps are, this would make it even more unused than it is now. You could build it in Langreskaya, south Kharkov and a few 2v2 maps like Veaux, and that's almost it. Na, I think the shoot through terrain gimmick is nice and not overpowered considering the thing dies very easily to artillery of any kind and is helpless against infantry or flanking vehicles. |
OH have no answer to shocks or guards atm.  Pgs nerf just did it for them...
Well positioned MGs.
Spaced out LMG grens.
Supporting flame pios.
Any vehicle of any sort.
All of these available at T2. If you expect to just be able to easily win against a doctrinal, 390 MP elite infantry that is close range only and can only hurt infantry with your basic troops, well, you're gonna have a bad time. I counters Shocks all the time and good opponents counter my Shocks. They're good, but you have all the answers you need. |
And what about ostheer armor?Thats in a good spot?
Panther elfant extinct.
PZ 4 Overpriced.
Tiger nerfed and last tank standing.
P4 is perfectly balanced. Elefant is fine. Panther needs the stats of the OKW one. Ostwind is still good, so is the Stug E. Vanilla Stug could use some love. Tiger is a great unit with probably the best quality/price ratio of all the late game heavies.
Compared to Soviets who have units that are downright obsolete if they don't use across the board OP call-ins (T-70, SU-76), Ostheer armor is doing fine apart from a few outstanding issues.
Or perhaps you would prefer the American tank park, that universally dies to a stiff breeze apart from two doctrinal tanks, one of which is fairly useless?
I mean, I don't think anyone can seriously claim Ostheer's late game is lacking. It's too Tiger dependent which should be fixed, but it's still incredibly solid. |
I'm not sure you're even reading what I posted.
Lets try this again.
AoE Suppression. It is something that all HMGs except for the Maxim has. When firing on one squad nearby squads will be suppressed.
Okay. So it only works on units on the Maxim's small arc of fire. If they're spread out enough the buff wouldn't even work on those units! It is a bonus that nerfs blobbing. That's all it does.
How do you flank HMGs? You flank them by attacking them with multiple squads from multiple direcitons. You flank by keeping your units far away from each other so they can attack from different angles. If you're spread out then you're not in a blob. If you're not in a blob then the AoE suppression doesn't matter.
Maybe that clarifies it.
Making the Maxim more expensive does actually make it easier to flank. There are less units to support it! There are less Maxims in Maxim spam. The reinforcement cost goes up for Soviets. AoE suppression doesn't make the Maxim more lethal. So no the "MP damage to the germans" would not go up.
You seem pretty keen on attacking other's bias based on their playercard but you didn't even look at Cruzz's playercard. I wonder what bias your playercard would reveal?
That being said I dislike the idea of using playercards to fuel some sort of inquisition of "who can actually talk" or not. Balance is different at different levels of the game. Everyone deserves a voice.
I agree, but at some point we also have to recognize not all feedback is equal. A good player like Cruzz who plays all factions and makes insightful posts is just way more valuable to the community than a biased fanboy like Warthorne who bristles with rage at the very idea that Soviets might get anything but nerfed to the ground, with seemingly very little considerations for the meta. Plus, he's the one who attacked the playercard of someone whose own card is pretty much beyond reproach. It's just massive hypocrisy is all.
Not that I think Cruzz is infallible, I have issues with his list as I stated. But it's a cut above the vast majority of the feedback in the balance section, let's just put it that way.
I'm all for a more expensive Maxim that punishes blobbing better myself. But I'm not still not quite sure if its not a bit too resilient. Then again, I barely even see Maximspam anymore, and when I do it's almost always by unskilled players that I almost always crush underfoot. And if I can manage to crush them, they are pretty bad indeed  . |
I agree with most of them except the Panzergrenadiers. If used well these guys are legendary. I have sent countless number of Riflemen, Conscripts, MG team, AT guns and mortars packing. I've only failed to send one squad packing. That was the shock troops squad
You do have to treat them with kid gloves until they reach vet 2, as they are quite fragile for their cost until then. But yeah, they can easily flank and turn a fight around. And once they get vet 3, with supporting LMG Grens? Let the carnage commence, nothing short of vet 3 Shocks or double 1919 Paras can survive.
Against shock troops I just tend to mix a flame pio among my Grens until they get their LMGs and vet.
Bottom line is, Ostheer is a very good faction that is solid at all stages of the game. They have a blind spot in T4 but if you play your cards right you don't really need it anyway. |
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