Profile of rumartinez89

Avatar Area

Offline Unknown SteamID unknown
Posts: 603

General Information


Thread: Testing various SMG units28 Oct 2022, 13:55 PM Had another issue that has been bugging me for a while. JLI vs Shocks, does the armor help vs the crit shot. Test was JLI squad wiped to last model so only G43 shoots and set to invulnerable. Shocks at max range, so JLI don’t miss as they have better acc at range, health set to 70%. Each shot hit and sniper crit kill. Did it twice so 12 models, can do it more if needed but I would have expected armor to help at least once. I have gotten into arguments in game about this as the average thought process makes sense. JLI are weak short range, Shocks are best short range squad. However in my personal play they just seemed to drop so fast. As the crit seems to be tied to hitting or not, Target size is most important followed by squad load out. My personal experience fighting JLI for Soviets my SMG suggestions PPSH cons - can literally sprint closer to get into mid range where the G43 acc goes down, has 2 model buffer so high damage can still be done Partisans - can move in cloak so they can get in position and minimize losses Airborne - can cloak but not move so it’s is more defensive will lose effectiveness in a charge AssG - mix model so has a 3 model buffer so will retain most of its performance in a charge Shocks - high reinforce and worst target size with vet(partisans) mean you will bleed hard I have also found smoke to be a bad idea as JLI can simply relocate and recloak USF Paras - have a two model buffer so they will do fine closing in, due to bad target size even with Vet JLI will perform will on approach Rangers - only one model buffer but great starting RA allows possible approach without taking crit shot. When both JLI and Rangers are vetted, JLI will still hit at max range but fall of shortly so a hard push really allows rangers to shine Commandos are probably best SMG squad as they can get in to optimal range without taking any damage In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: Testing various SMG units28 Oct 2022, 11:57 AM Jump back to quoted post28 Oct 2022, 10:51 AMKlement Pikhtura Honestly, I don't see any problem with that. 0.8 RA means that the shots that passed the accuracy roll have a 20% chance to miss. Just multiply the DPS by RA and you get your DPS. However, a resource that compares different units with different setups would be great. Yea your right, was over thinking it for a second. If we had something similar but had modifiers to change target size and another to change cover it would go a long way to explaining to the community how certain weapons work. For example, IR Obers/JLI vs Vetted cons. Changing the covers could show how strong the unit is and help understand what your seeing in game. In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: Testing various SMG units28 Oct 2022, 11:52 AM Jump back to quoted post28 Oct 2022, 11:16 AMVipper PPSh is anything but a "highly accurate weapon" with far accuracy of 0.12 The intended use is close range with a vetted acc of 1.14, which SMG vetted or not is more accurate at its intended range? Why are you bringing up far accuracy in a question about short range unit? Accuracy, damage reduction, armor all have similar effects in the long run because in most small amrs fights the weapon do not fire with 100% accuracy. But every single example you gave involves RNG, damage reduction for Grens with a target size of 1 completely removes that at short range for Vetted PPSH, VET Para combines, VET SVT as they all have 100% acc or better. Explosive weapons work different than small arms, since the accuracy of most of these weapon is too low to have a significant impact. But yes damage reduction would work to protect infatry from these and that is why Grenadiers get it. On the other hand neither the 120mm mortar nor the Pak howitzer do 80 so they can not kill entities with one shot. I was talking about the actual howitzer/B4 The Game is RNG based so there is little wrong with RNG in general. I agree, but the game promotes saving VET, units losing a vetted squad to clumping which has nothing to do with skill is infuriating. Something as minor as 5% damage reduction could stop a full health squad from dying upon exiting a building or turning a corner 1) depends on range 2) depends on enemy being in cover or not. Damage reduction comes at vet 3 and the problems exist way before that. They sure do, its just seems to be the one area where the damage reduction probably doesn't help as much as having a better target size. In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: Testing various SMG units28 Oct 2022, 00:46 AM Jump back to quoted post27 Oct 2022, 23:29 PMdonofsandiego I think we're not really on the same page as far as what the meaning of "capping" is, although I think we pretty much agree eith everything else. I was just saying that I don't think that "cap" is the right word because while it's accurate for burst damage (grenades and other explosions that have a set amount of damage when they hit a squad & will be reduced by the damage reduction), for sustained damage like squad v. squad it's more of a "dampener" to damage than a "cap". Your right, for most cases it would just work as a dampener. However I am hyper focusing on highly accurate weapons(Vetted PPSH, Para Carbine, Penal SVT...). Every weapon should have a maximum damage they can do once you hit an accuracy of 1 if the target has a size of 1 which Grens do. AT that point the damage modifier becomes a CAP, again using the PPSh example as it is most relevant, each gun would get capped at 12.8 DPS and there is no way to increase that damage. If the above is correct, making damage reduction at various levels a VET bonus would have been a better way to balance all units. This would remove a lot of RNG from tank shots/120mm mortar/howi killing an entire squad in one hit giving a chance for counter play(SMASHING RETREAT) Once say Penals/Shocks get vetted isn't most if not all of the bonus from Mother Russia pointless aside from the rec acc?(Same for other highly accurate weapons for other factions) Also similar but not completely related, this could also be why OST has such issues with Pathfinders. As the scoped carbine is fairly accurate and Grens have a target size of 1, the shots have a great chance of landing and since they have sniper crit once the threshold is passed it partially negates the purpose of the Gren damage reduction. In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: Testing various SMG units27 Oct 2022, 21:21 PM Jump back to quoted post27 Oct 2022, 20:34 PMdonofsandiego Maybe this is being a little anal, but I wouldn't call that a cap on damage, per se. More of a squad-wide DPS limiter if anything. It's a cap to accuracy, after all. 80 HP, that's your damage cap, since the LMG burst ends when the model dies. At least for Grens MG42 that is. Not sure best way to say it, but doesn’t damage reduction remove a lot of RNG and just CAP the damage put out. For arguments sake we use the vet 3 PPSH damage of 16 DPS. As the Gren has a target size of 1, it would normally receive all 16 DPS. But with the Vet3 damage reduction the PPSH would do a maximum damage of 12.8. No boost from say Mother Russia would increase that damage. However, it is possible for Gren to reduce damage taken with aura such as command tank and or air dropped medical supplies. Again, assuming I am understanding it right. In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: Testing various SMG units27 Oct 2022, 16:14 PM Jump back to quoted post27 Oct 2022, 12:43 PMHannibal Values for highly accurate weapons and vetted squads are fairly artificial anyway due to the aforementioned accuracy cap. E.g. the PPSh has a close range accuracy of 0.8. Combine that with the +40% accuracy modifier of Shock troops and you're technically at 1.12. This value will be capped at 1, meaning the calculated DPS gain will only be 25% instead of the promised 40%. But that's not what you will see in game. Your vet3 Shock will likely fight a vet3 Volks or something. The lower RA of the targeted squad will usually push the overall accuracy below 1 (to 1.12x0.77 = 0.86 in our example), which will not be capped and mean that the veterancy accuracy bonuses have the effect that they are intended to have. Against a newly build Volksgrenadier, the calculated value would be true, but when comparing vetted units, they might not reflect the game properly. A couple thoughts based off what you said, please correct me where I am wrong. (Mainly about SMG units) Serelia data is fairly pointless even if it was 100% correct in a balance discussion as it uses a target size of 1 despite RA being the 2nd most important value. Hopefully, for COH3 we get a version that lets us test vs different target sizes. Soviet units in general scale better with regards to RA than USF/UKF. Across the board most Soviet units get 40% or more ACC with VET compared to the 30% or less USF/UKF get. Normally the argument would be that USF and UKF start with better based stats which would take this into account. For example Rangers start off great with their 4 Thompsons and great RA of .73 which was made apparent when I tested them against AssG and won everytime. However with VET, AssG RA outscales Ranger Acc and AssG Acc outscales Ranger RA bonus leading to a situation where they perform a lot more similarly then expected. As Axis elites usually get larger RA bonus than 25% this would mean Rangers(and Paras) perform better against mainlines unless Paras use Tactical advance. Penal Acc bonus may not increase max damage but would make them the most consistent performer against axis Elites as Penals could brute force past Axis great RA. This also means anything less than 10% Target size buff against most Soviet PPSH is pointless which is why most OST players skip G43 upgrade in short range maps. At VET3, the Gren would receive the same amount of damage from a VET3 Shock/PPSH Con/PPSH Partisan or Penal which makes it a fairly lack luster upgrade vs LMG. On the flip side, the damage reduction removal was a much larger nerf to Rangers than was advertised as no matter what their is a CAP on the damage certain weapons can do per second as seen with Gren example. In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: Testing various SMG units27 Oct 2022, 12:11 PM Jump back to quoted post27 Oct 2022, 11:57 AMVipper Not necessarily since accuracy is capped at 1 and it probable that once vetted Penals get higher accuracy than 1 at close range that is "wasted". But wouldn't that mean they both get a stationary damage of 16.863? Yet, serelia has Penals listed at 16.613 so is the extra accuracy having a negative effect? The increased moving DPS would make sense as the moving acc nerf wouldn't effect them as much as they have a higher value to start with. In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: Testing various SMG units27 Oct 2022, 12:07 PM Jump back to quoted post27 Oct 2022, 11:58 AMHannibal It's less about DPS retention on the move, but about the absolute DPS on mid-long range in my opinion. PPSh and SMGs in general are great on short range, but unless you can body block the enemy or cut into the retreat path, they are not good at wiping. Especially in frontal assaults, where the enemy might retreat straight to the back once you're in optimum range, there is not much they can do because the enemy will exit the most dangerous zone instantly. Yea you and Vipper are right about that. However do to map design and most users instantly retreating once SMG users get close I have tried really hard to change my approach. Frontally assaulting anything leads to most of the complaints we have as SMG units wont really pay off. I try to attack from the side or behind so I can attempt to get into the retreat path as much as possible which probably led me to confirmation bias of PPSH being better than Thompsons. (Just remembered that I am also comparing them to AssG which only have 3 Thompsons) In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: Testing various SMG units27 Oct 2022, 11:11 AM Jump back to quoted post27 Oct 2022, 00:45 AMVipper Thompson have good DPS as far as range 20 so that is not very accurate and Ober get 2 IR STG and 2 K98... You are right about Thompsons, it comes down to in game situation. PPSH/Thompsons do about the same damage on the move close range however with 6 PPSH they do about 72 damage close(up to range 10) with a drop to 24 at 15 range. Paras would do 65.4 DPS at range 4, 61.6 at range 10 but hold on fairly well at range 15 for about 35 DPS. So if you can get a bit of body blocking going PPSH are better, no blocking Thompsons. One thing I find interesting is Shocks have better base damage with VET vs Penals in serelia but on the move Penals do more damage. So one of the numbers is wrong as Penals should do equal or more damage standing still due to Vet ACC which would make their on the move damage being higher makes sense. Penals would do 78 DPS until 10 range and 30 DPS at 15 range, which would match them up significantly better vs Paras. At point blank Obers do 57 DPS, range 8 55.45, range 15 ~ 32 DPS and range 20 24.4 DPS and 15.93 at range 30 which is where all other SMG have fallen off. (Paras do 20.6 DPS at range 20, 6.47 range 30 mostly due to carbines) All numbers above where using VET3. Non VET Shocks close-50.1 DPS range-15 17 DPS Paras range-4 51.3 DPS range-10 48 DPS range-15 27.6 range-20 15.89 range-30 4.95 Obers range-0 39.85 range-8 38.6 range-15 21.9 range-20 16.66 range-30 10.67 Obers are pretty much the best chasers despite only having 2 IR STGs, it is worth chasing even almost to max range. Paras start off as stronger chasers than Shocks which makes sense as they cost muni and come later but Shocks make up a lot of the difference with superior VET so like I said a little earlier it really comes down to the in game situation. In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: Testing various SMG units27 Oct 2022, 10:26 AM Jump back to quoted post27 Oct 2022, 01:40 AMtheekvn you forget StormStrooper MP40 and Volk MP40, Ass Rifle/Tommy and Pastisan PPsH Still, Ranger SMG based on their pure raw power NOT tactical unit like Para, Stormstrooper, osber SMG...v..v. I didn't forget them I was mainly looking at the elite units, really started as AssG, Airborne and IR Obers and the others joined in for the hell of it. What I said about Falls applies to the Partisan and Storm, you need to test them using cloak and I am not good enough with testing to not effect the performance of the cloak. With Storms you also need to use Tactical Advance to get maximum performance so a lot for a noob like me to get right. Without cloak/ability I would expect them to lose every fight due to sheer EHP of the competition. In: COH2 Gameplay