Profile of Cardboard Tank

Let´s just pray that the Jagdpanzer IV L/70 gets 60 range.

What I find sad about the Panther is that the whole vehicle has become some sort of defensive support unit. You can´t use it offensively. If you use it to attack and one or two Soviet tanks appear you have to hit the reverse button and drive straight back to your base. Otherwise you go down with five shots.

Nowadays the Panther is best parked somewhere in the hinterland of your forces to deliver a killing blow to already damaged T-34s. Something that the Pak can do way more cost efficiently.

This doesn't tell us anything, except that Panther is now in a worse position than it used to be. Our perceptions what it should do are painted by what it USED to do.

Look at it from a perspective of someone who never played previous patches, who is just now entering CoH2 gameplay. Someone who never used the old Vet2 panther with the old Turboblitz. What would they say : is the Panther good enough for cost in THAT context?

Okay, let´s just look at its state today.

It costs ~30% more than other mediums and requires T4. For that, you get:
- unparallelled antitank capabilities

I disagree. First, the cost is immense. It is the most expensive non doctrinal tank in the game to get. Its anti tank is okayish. Elefant and ISU-152 have unparalleled AT-capabilities. Tiger and IS-2 are also stronger than the Panther. Last but not least the SU-85 imo is a lot more useful than the Panther in a fight, that´s not a vacuum. Simply because of the range. So I disagree with that unparalleled AT-capability.

- weakest anti infantry of all the mediums, (the top mounted MG does mitigate that somewhat)

Dito. Weakest anti infantry on a medium tank. For Okayish anti tank and highest fuel and teching cost.

- longest range on a turreted tank

Still less than a SU-85. Also the range isn´t as helpful as with self spotting vehicles. Only with doctrinal scopes and when being static the range becomes a real advantage. Btw. spotting squads will get wiped in the current state of the game.

- still highly mobile (very good cross-country capabilities)

Those are okay.

- high frontal armour value (reliably bounces shells unless flanked)

I strongly disagree here. Someone on the official forums posted a chart about it. Turns out AT guns and SU-85s have a very high chance of 2/3 to go through its armor.

http://community.companyofheroes.com/forum/company-of-heroes-2/coh-2-balance-feedback/51728-panther

All this against a faction that doesn't have good infantry based AT.

Guards can button, At nades do well against the Panthers side and rear. Omni-purpose mines and AT-Partisans in another doctrine. Finally Schrecks are dropped way more than before (PGs having no survivability that is). The Panther isn´t that scary vs tanks anyways.

Things that need to be fixed to balance the game (other than the super tank discussion):

Infantry:
- Panzergrenadiere need more armor
- MG 42 needs slightly more suppression

German T4 needs to be useful:
- Panther buff (preferably frontal-armor as everything goes through)

Artillery buff:
- to 152mm and 105mm howitzers
- to Katjuscha and Panzerwerfer


The biggest issue with Germans is their useless units late game if you don´t go for a Tiger or Elefant doctrine. The Panther is joke on tracks. Also Conscripts ooraaing into MG42s head on and still getting off that Molotov is shit balance early game. Finally the lack of Elite infantry is stupid. Panzergrenadiere just give away free Schrecks for the enemy now.

MG 42 has better range + better cons of fire, which is of utmost importance in defensive play.

This argument is flawed. With that adjustment the MG42 can be useless in a bigger area. Congratulations.