I´m fine with 4 men in a squad. Imagine a MG42 upgrade on 5 men - even when tuned down accordingly. That would be a bit too much.
Also I will mention the dirty word: Realism. Germans had less men on the field. I´d like to see that reflected. Right now Germans have roughly 2/3rd the amount of men in comparison to the Russians on the field. That´s already incredibly much men for the Germans.
5 men German squads
28 May 2014, 15:14 PM
#21
Posts: 978
28 May 2014, 15:51 PM
#22
Posts: 85
^^ 3 men squads could also work if they gave them some AoE resistance and redistributed health so that it took 2 shots to kill a model by snipers. Snipers are then just as useful but don't force retreats as easily (also as its random which model gets targeted you will often get overkill damage on the same model).
I naturally assumed we'd see some such 3 man squads in the expansion but from screenshots it seems not.
I naturally assumed we'd see some such 3 man squads in the expansion but from screenshots it seems not.
28 May 2014, 15:53 PM
#23
Posts: 807
^^ 3 men squads could also work if they gave them some AoE resistance and redistributed health so that it took 2 shots to kill a model by snipers. (...)
I naturally assumed we'd see some such 3 man squads in the expansion but from screenshots it seems not.
...now let's not exaggerate, yes?
28 May 2014, 16:14 PM
#24
Posts: 1701
I´m fine with 4 men in a squad. Imagine a MG42 upgrade on 5 men - even when tuned down accordingly. That would be a bit too much.
Also I will mention the dirty word: Realism. Germans had less men on the field. I´d like to see that reflected. Right now Germans have roughly 2/3rd the amount of men in comparison to the Russians on the field. That´s already incredibly much men for the Germans.
And I also would want to be reflected the famous word Quality over Quantity for ger and sov infantry, but hey, 4 men(1 armor) vs 6 men(1 armor). Where is simulated there the Quality?
Blaue Division - The best corp
BPX - Black Phoenix, Clan leader.
BPX - Black Phoenix, Clan leader.
28 May 2014, 16:17 PM
#25
Posts: 1702
And I also would want to be reflected the famous word Quality over Quantity for ger and sov infantry, but hey, 4 men(1 armor) vs 6 men(1 armor). Where is simulated there the Quality?
no matter how well trained you are, it still does not make you less harmable by bullets.
A bullet from an untrained conscript in a grenadiers head still kills just as well as a bullet from an experienced grenadier.
Quality vs Quantity is simulated by giving grens 50% more DPS.
28 May 2014, 16:21 PM
#26
Posts: 1701
no matter how well trained you are, it still does not make you less harmable by bullets.
A bullet from an untrained conscript in a grenadiers head still kills just as well as a bullet from an experienced grenadier.
Quality vs Quantity is simulated by giving grens 50% more DPS.
It was simulated before as 1.5 armor to grens, so they are harder to kill due to their training skills, superior to soviet ones. But now? just a few dps more? thats the difference? I want some armor back!!!
Blaue Division - The best corp
BPX - Black Phoenix, Clan leader.
BPX - Black Phoenix, Clan leader.
28 May 2014, 16:25 PM
#27
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
It was simulated before as 1.5 armor to grens, so they are harder to kill due to their training skills, superior to soviet ones. But now? just a few dps more? thats the difference? I want some armor back!!!
Be careful what you are asking for. Shocks? Guards? PG blobs?
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
28 May 2014, 17:02 PM
#28
Posts: 640
IMO the problem lies in the team weapons.
German team weapons are at a disadvantage because a) they have equal armor to the soviet counterparts and b) because all support weapons have the +25% increased received accuracy modifier.
Now, soviet crews have 6 models and german crews have only 4. The weapon is lost if only 1 guy is left. When you put a + b together it's quite clear which one dies faster. However, german team weapons don't bunch up as bad as the soviets do, for whatever reason.
The same fact somewhat applies to the grens vs cons but grens vs cons match-up is quite balanced because cons win up close and grens win at longer ranges.
German team weapons are at a disadvantage because a) they have equal armor to the soviet counterparts and b) because all support weapons have the +25% increased received accuracy modifier.
Now, soviet crews have 6 models and german crews have only 4. The weapon is lost if only 1 guy is left. When you put a + b together it's quite clear which one dies faster. However, german team weapons don't bunch up as bad as the soviets do, for whatever reason.
The same fact somewhat applies to the grens vs cons but grens vs cons match-up is quite balanced because cons win up close and grens win at longer ranges.
28 May 2014, 17:03 PM
#29
Posts: 4928
Only Shocks have Armour now because if you look at their model, they literally have armour plates on their chests.
IRL version, too.
IRL version, too.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
28 May 2014, 18:36 PM
#30
Posts: 60
I agree, because RNG is such a large factor in everything from small arms engagements to mines and explosive shells, and the limitations of the squad grouping/pathing AI, this would help reduce the significance of statistically anomalous performance (i.e. rolling multiple criticals, "lucky" mortar hits, squad wipes due to unit grouping, etc).
While a certain degree of randomness seems the be integral to the CoH game design, and this does succeed in recreating the unpredictability of war as well as adding some flavour to the game, consistent and predictable unit behaviour is critical to competitive RTS. As the frequency and magnitude of RNG based events increases, players actions and decisions have a diminishing affect on the outcome of the match.
While a certain degree of randomness seems the be integral to the CoH game design, and this does succeed in recreating the unpredictability of war as well as adding some flavour to the game, consistent and predictable unit behaviour is critical to competitive RTS. As the frequency and magnitude of RNG based events increases, players actions and decisions have a diminishing affect on the outcome of the match.
28 May 2014, 18:59 PM
#31
Posts: 1571
Probably a good idea is to make the german troops 'spread' out as much as the Soviet 6 man squad does so indirect/direct fire doesn't wipe out the whole squad.
28 May 2014, 19:36 PM
#32
Posts: 60
If you are forced to play defensive and take alternate routes due to mines then the mines have already payed off even without one ever going off.. mmkay?
That is largely the purpose of laying mines. Dealing with potential threats is as much a part of the game as dealing with active and visible threats.
28 May 2014, 20:47 PM
#33
7 
Posts: 1664
IMO the problem lies in the team weapons.
German team weapons are at a disadvantage because a) they have equal armor to the soviet counterparts and b) because all support weapons have the +25% increased received accuracy modifier.
Now, soviet crews have 6 models and german crews have only 4. The weapon is lost if only 1 guy is left. When you put a + b together it's quite clear which one dies faster. However, german team weapons don't bunch up as bad as the soviets do, for whatever reason.
The same fact somewhat applies to the grens vs cons but grens vs cons match-up is quite balanced because cons win up close and grens win at longer ranges.
The key here, coming from someone who is a recent Ostheer convert after a year of Soviets, is German Set-up teams are WAY better; They come from tier one, MG42 has the brutal Incendiary Round at vet one (bolstered by reload and vet bulletins) and the GrW-43 mortar fires much faster and more accurate than the PM-41.
They are also indirectly better because the Ostheer HT comes so early and helps them stay on the field.
28 May 2014, 20:51 PM
#34
2 
Posts: 2181
The only squad I would like to see 5 of is Pgrens. Right now they are just manpower bleed against almost anything.
28 May 2014, 21:03 PM
#35
Posts: 1740
They are also indirectly better because the Ostheer HT comes so early and helps them stay on the field.
The problem here is that literally 1 Consquad while wipe out both the mortar and the HT if you don't pull them back.
It is though God by command has withdrawn every other throne.
And God is saying 'No. These people will deal with me alone.'
And God is saying 'No. These people will deal with me alone.'
29 May 2014, 01:07 AM
#36
7 Posts: 1664
The problem here is that literally 1 Consquad while wipe out both the mortar and the HT if you don't pull them back.
Both of those units need to be near MG42 or MG42 bunker.
29 May 2014, 01:36 AM
#37
Posts: 168
It was simulated before as 1.5 armor to grens, so they are harder to kill due to their training skills, superior to soviet ones. But now? just a few dps more? thats the difference? I want some armor back!!!
For a moment I thought you were serious
Then I realized the irony and decided to get some sleep
29 May 2014, 03:22 AM
#38
4 
Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2
The problem here is that literally 1 Consquad while wipe out both the mortar and the HT if you don't pull them back.
seems like you got flanked
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29 May 2014, 04:57 AM
#39
Posts: 85
They just need to tone down the aoe of mines and the ISU main gun.
Plus, heavy tanks should require tech from both sides.
No need to drastically change game balance and add 5 men infantry squads...
Plus, heavy tanks should require tech from both sides.
No need to drastically change game balance and add 5 men infantry squads...
29 May 2014, 06:18 AM
#40
1 Posts: 169
If anything make it like some T4 or vet3 upgrade (so that you don't lose vet so easily) to get a squad leader that has an mp-40 or 44 which would not allow them to have the same long ranged DPS of the actual grens.
Pudding.
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