I like the idea of having more upgrades as a separate talking point from how the Soviet (or German) tiers work. But it can be hard when you choose to go T1 to be aggressive, then feel like you need to tech to T2 for Maxims or AT guns, pushing back your t3 or t4. |
I find this entire thread to be a bit disingenuous, to be honest. COH2 is a micro-intense clickfest? What? Positioning doesn't matter?
Coming from SC2 and Dota 2, I cannot agree. In SC2, a Gold League Zerg player can easily have 90APM, and due to the artificial way in which units respond to commands, dodging area attacks or splitting units to minimize their impact is a huge part of gameplay (baneling/marine encounters or Colossus vs ... most things). By contrast, in COH2, even an out of position scout car is challenged to get out of the line of fire.
This means that positioning, and not reaction time, is still more important in COH2. Sloppy play (sending that SU85 out on its own for example) is not going to be saved by micro as it could in SC2.
Sure, grenades bring a bit of (welcome IMvHO) micro to a match and perhaps some changes related to cover or damage are needed, but that's separate from COH being a clickfest. You probably don't need more than 40-60APM to play COH2 (maybe a smidge more). I agree with DanielD - 'nades increase the game's skill ceiling and I think that's welcome. Perhaps some rebalancing is needed, but that doesn't mean COH is a "clickfest." Positioning is still of relatively high importance in relation to micro skill compared with SC2 or most other games in the RTS genre.
And I think anyone who feels that microing the handful of squads and vehicles that COH asks of you (no offense) is a burden might want to go play SC2 for a bit for perspective. The dynamics of micro are very different, but I do not feel (as a mediocre at best SC2 player) that COH2 places too much of a micro burden on its players by any stretch of the imagination.
To summarize, I think it's really disingenuous for people to assert that COH2 is too micro heavy, and I don't understand how people are claiming that positioning doesn't matter or that micro is devaluing positioning. Other complaints (re: commanders/doctrines, grenade damage, cover mechanics) I see as related issues, but solvable without lowering the mechanical skill ceiling.
Honestly, with pathing improvements, you'd arguably see the mechanical skill ceiling raised (as troops and vehicles would be more responsive) which would only be good for the game IMvHO. |
I do prefer to have a large and happy community in a game. It's definitely a factor in my enjoyment. From what I see (many complaining about the lack of lobbies etc) others in the community do care about the size and quality of the community, as well.
EDIT - why would you not want a large group of passionate people to share your hobby with you?
Also, the bigger the community, the better matchmaking works. That's important to me as well |
I never played vCOH so I don't really have an incentive to go "back" to it. In fact, since I've sunk so many hours into learning COH2 I actually have less incentive to go to coh1's multiplayer as it'd mean learning a new game.
I find it interesting but ultimately kind of sad at how angrily, uncompromisingly divided the coh2 community is, which is one of the things that prompted me to post this thread in the first place.
Loved DOW2 btw. |
Thanks guys! I guess it's just frustrating seeing all the negativity and not personally agreeing with much of it.
I don't consider myself qualified to talk about balance at a high level, and mostly blame myself (or teammates, let's be honest) when I or my team loses. I'm still at the level where it's quite possible to outplay someone or to simply be outplayed, and/or maybe my mindset is just one that would rather take the blame for a loss than to blame the designers of a game?
Either way, thanks for the encouraging words. Maybe I'll see some of you eventually in ladder |
My problem isn't misclickung the wrong commander, but picking too early and choosing a commander that doesn't suit the battle scenario well enough.
While I imagine that an "are you sure?" prompt might reduce the chances of that happening slightly, I think it'd ultimately be more annoying than useful. |
Lol looks like you found a problem with the ice mechanic I guess? That's pretty funny tbh. Not a Kv8 issue though, i'd guess that any weapon with an area of effect could have produced that result |
I like this idea and hope that something like that is implemented. I think it would be more fun (if nothing else) for Soviets to be able to field a greater mix of units in the average match.
Also, many losses I see from Soviets involve them never going t4 after picking t3. It feels to me that the T34 and SU85 compliment each other very well and I'd like to see that combo more in 1v1. |
So, this is in response to the overwhelming negativity in the COH2 community... I got into the COH franchise starting with COH2. I did not play COHO, VCOH or any of the original titles.
I came to COH after becoming disenfranchised with SC2, which is mechanically complex and has an evolving meta and welcoming community, but requires even the average player to devote tens of hours a week to perfecting and practicing build orders over and over just to float at the same level, to say nothing of actually improving.
Furthermore, I'm kind of getting bored with the average base building macro element in most RTS games. My favorite part of RTS games is the tactical unit control. I enjoy Wargame: ALB, but its community is even smaller than COH2's at the moment (when I'm on COH2 there's usually about 16-1800 ppl logged in, and when I check out ALB, there seem to be ~600). I'm sure when the next Men at War and Blitzkrieg games come out, I'll enjoy those as well.
I spent the better part of a year before COH2's launch deeply involved in the development of End of Nations, which has since derailed to become something of a MOBA more than a tactics or RTS game.
All that to say, there aren't too many other games out there that focus almost entirely on unit and map control over base building and economy management, without going to something like DOTA. But aside from that, I just like COH2.
I like snow maps, and don't mind blizzards. There aren't many RTS/tactics games where the map is interactive and changes over the course of a match, and I think it's neat. I like the Relic model, even if sometimes RNG can get a bit too extreme, I (personally) feel that it suits the game better than a purely deterministic model like SC2 has.
I even like the Doctrines/commanders (though I admit I haven't played COH1 to experience that doctrine model) which allow me to tailor my tools available to me in each match.
Are there problems with the game? Sure! But that's not my point. I enjoy playing.
But, the game seems to be leaking players. It wasn't too long ago when I'd check the Steam community when I got home from work and I'd see over 4000 players. And of course, here and on Reddit, and on Facebook, there's a solidly negative stance on the game. I was hoping i'd get years of gameplay out of COH2, and if the community doesn't implode I still hope to.
So, I guess to sum all this up and bring it back 'round, I wanted to ask y'all if you think it's even worth sticking with and continuing to learn COH2, or if it's just not worth the effort of investing the time... ? |
I am not a great player, but I'm paying more attention to where enemy units are clumped and not just aiming directly under the squad icon any more. Also, I'm getting better at predicting movement patterns This has increased my efficiency with 'nades.
But, more than that, I'm improving in other ways. I'm not just rushing vehicles into bad positions, I'm flanking more/better/getting better reads of situations going in. I'm learning the meta and what my opponent is likely to do on any given map (and at reacting to it). I'm spending resources more efficiently, and mining more consistently and in better locations.
Coming from SC2, my APM was already around 70-90 (not great for that game but it seems sufficient atm in COH2). But for me at least, I'm learning to play smarter and not harder, if you get my drift.
EDIT: lately, though, I've been focused less on grenades in the early game so I can hit t3/t4 faster (I play Soviet) |