U know what? Let's make a test. Just bring the squad of grens close to su and get it to at least a light cover. Post the replay so we could all see how much time it will take for the su to destroy those grens. Even more, we could do the same with pgrens and just see what happens. Fair enough?
I'm not the guy spamming snipers, guards and sus. It may sound akward, but i mostly play soviet t3. And that wasn't Pripyat' for sure. It was a map with suburbs or smth.
All right sir, Challenge accepted.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B35rkBbK6-w
[game played by peter (one of the devs) after the patch.]
Specifically look at 23:40 to 23:50. The german pushes out of his base with a huge blob, leading with schrek'd pgrens.
What happens is this:
- Just to clarify so you don't ask... the conscripts shoot at the pgrens for a little while at first before retreating, but the amount they contributed is very small and has no effect on the point I am trying to illustrate.
- First shot of SU-85 kills one squad member of the pgren squad.
- Third shot takes out two more pgren squad members, bringing it down to one man with a slither of hp left, after which the last member is killed by antoher su85 shot.(the camera moves away, but you can see it dying cos it dissapears from the UI, and nothing else was shooting at them at that time. The shocks only arrive after they are dead.)
Bear in mind that this happened at long range. The SU-85 is
even more accurate at sniping at closer ranges (i.e. the range the schreks have to be to shoot it).
(I know the german guy blobbed but this has no effect on proving my point since the SU85 was shooting at the pgrens which were in front.)
Now if this doesn't show to you in the most clearest of ways that su85's
do snipe pgrens, I don't know what will.
My point is they shouldn't be so damn effective at killing their own hard counter.
Ok sure, you weren't that guy on pripiyat so i'm not mad at you lol
I don't remember the game but you must have out played me then. I do often try new freaky builds so it could always have been a scenario like that.
Now, all that being said I do have some good news. I tried out using stugs vs su85's last night and got quite some success. The lag between issuing orders and units responding has been greatly improved. I find stugs used with panzer tactition quite effective at keeping su85's at bay. Stugs should still have longer range, but it has been a step in the right direction to make them harder to hit at least(smaller target size).
Using the stugs takes more micro than it takes to micro the SU-85 though cos of its superior range, so I still feel the complaints about the SU-85 have good grounds. It's damage is fine. Its ability to snipe pgrens and paks is pure bullshit. Its reverse speed is too damn high. If they fix the reverse and sniping problems then they have done a lot already. Its range is debatable but I dont see why in the world it should out range a stug. SU85's insane range makes it very hard on a map like pripiyat cos of the limited flanking avenues(trees on side protect it).