Kubels are just going to be one of those units that is going to remain stupid until some time. The same thing happened to the M3 Scout Car. Relic keeps adding T0-T1 vehicle units that are too powerful for the first few minutes.
Hey guys! Let's introduce a vehicle into a faction where it requires the player's stupidity or the opponent's luck for it to be destroyed! (<-------- Mainly M3)
The problem is that if Relic decides to remove the kubel then the early game OKW infantry are going to be obliterated by the allies infantry. Well, they can replace the kubel with the mg34 but knowing relic's previous history they won't do that. So it will probably be nerfed.
For the King Tiger, absolutely. Make the vet 1 ability spearhead and the vet 3 ability target weak-point. Blitzkrieg shouldn't be on the king tiger, it makes no sense.
As for the Tiger, well, knowing Relic, they won't make a new ability just to replace the Tiger's blitzkrieg. Therefore we should put HEAT rounds...
Just Kidding. In all seriousness, I think the Tiger's vet 1 ability should be a rate of fire increase for a short period of time. Panthers, Shrecks, Elefants, JagdTigers, and Pumas are all hard counters already to the SU85.
the pak vs zis rof difference even unvetted, is significant. still ill take a pak any day over a zis, im sure most people can agree with me.
use grens to get sight on rifles and mg42 deploy at max range, smoke wont save them when they are already caught by the mg42 except to cover themselves from getting shot up further. use this chance to relocate mg42 and grens focus down on squads trying to flank, standard vcoh wehr play.
i play loads of 2v2 as allies and quite enough as axis to have experience on them. i know what you mean, but sadly, as long as they dont buff conscripts and fix the initial infantry advantage that okw has (okw can have volks and sturmpios on the field while soviet have conscripts and engrs), cheap tricks are here to stay.
without m3, kubels are extremely strong and cannot be taken out by cons/maxims. without m3/maxim, soviets will lose all infantry fights. its a complete uphill battle without m3. maxim advantage can be negated based on maps, garrisoning buildings usually works well.
I guess you did refute my point when giving an example about the smokes. Still, that example was a situation in which the US just charges in like a moron. Again, a skilled player would flank the machine gun. (re-positioning a mg42 when flanked is a death sentence)
I think kubels are fine as is except the bug where green cover doesn't affect suppression rate. I don't think they should be able to last all game. But I wish it can disable it's gun for faster speed so I can actually use it like a recon unit sort of like the schwimwaggen.
Maxim spam isn't really that big of an issue for me, my buddy takes care of them since he uses Agrens.
Still, allies have dirty tactics to win early game. That's why I think they can have a superior early game. I use dirty tactics like this guy below.
Except both soviets and Americans need to choose a doctrine with late game units, while Germans can choose a early game doctrine and still have access to late game units.
Alright let me lay down the law. Axis can be good early as well as late game, so can allies, it all depends on what you do. Do you want to save up for late game tanks? Then you're gonna have a rough early game. Do you want to save up for early game tanks? Then you're gonna have a good early-mid game.(This includes the flak-ht). Same goes with infantry. Get tons of volks early game while partner goes support like dbl light-howi and you're gonna have a swell time on one side of the map(after taking out your opponents on one side simply send something to cap the rest of the map). Or go usual couple volks while saving mp for other stuff like falls/jaeger/etc...
smoke nades requires teching or shocks to counter mg42, like all mg, they shine when used at max range, firing from the fog makes mg42 very powerful. given the lack of sprint, it takes a while for rifles/shocks to get close on the mg42 even if they pop smoke. in the mean time, focus on the squads attempting to rush mg42s.
i'd be glad to make that trade with you. paks dont just have a slightly faster rof, it has a significantly higher rof that makes it does about 45% more dps than a zis. allied paper thin armour makes no difference when heavy tanks come into play. a zis will struggle against a tiger before the tiger gets behind it or slugs it out, but a pak have a pretty good chance of destroying an is2 due to its much higer firing rate.
the only reason why you prefer the mg34 is the insta pin which the mg42 cannot do, that arc trumps over maxim's arc anyday.
lastly, rifles. in the vacuum, grens < rifles. but ostheer t1 >>>>>>>>>>>>> USF t1. usf has only got rifles to count on, but ostheer has got mg42 to pin rifles down. you need to take advantage of this fact, before you go into unit stat differences. 3grens + 1 mg42 > 4 rifles, all unupgraded, even when bars are thrown into the picture, grens have lmg42 and it does not screw with the equation. bars need tech, while lmg42 are free with bp1 that unlocks even more units.
and volks, they are cheaper and equally durable. its a pretty even fight with rifles as long as sturmpios are there to keep rifles from closing in. mg34 in t1 @ 210mp is also a steal, okw has no issue against infantry at all.
In all honesty, who doesn't upgrade to grenades. I'm serious, that's screaming suicide. Yes, those squads don't have sprint but they can still easily flank MG42s. They're other counters to it which I listed before besides running up like an idiot.
Penetration of PAK: 210.0/200.0/190.0
Penetration of Zis: 200.0/190.0/180.0
Hardly a difference penetration wise, plus the significantly faster ROF occurs when it's at vet. Like I said before, a vetted pak is by far superior than a vetted zis. Also Paks still have a hard time with IS2s, IS2 frontal armor is 375. Yes few shots will manage to penetrate but by then my IS2 will obliterate the support weapon or my shocks will.
Also you mean Germans T1>USF T0. It's always been like that even with the soviets. Plus that scenario where 3 Grens + MG fighting 4 riflemen. The Germans won't win that every time. Maybe if I throw all 4 of my riflemen like an idiot then maybe he could win. But 1 smoke nade would make that MG useless. Even then, that's if someone plays like an idiot. If 2 riflemen flank the MG (toss a nade) and the other riflemen move up once the MG is getting attacked or taken out, the 4 riflemen win the engagement. In these scenarios, you're forgetting a huge factor, which is skill.
Volks-Grenaiders, yes they are a damage sponge until they get veterancy, but they do so little damage...
Volks 0 Range: 3.43
10 Range: 2.47
20 Range: 1.9
Compare that to the riflemen that I posted before. This is why many players don't run up with Riflemen against volks, because they know they will win the engagement regardless. If the sturmpio decides to run up to my riflemen, goodbye sturmpio, because sturms lose a lot of dps on the move and are more vulnerable cover wise.
The MG34 is doctrinal and is by far the best Machine Gun in the game. It's the only reliable suppressing weapon that the okw has besides kubel. If you play or even watch 2 vs 2 games or higher, you will see that okw have a hard time early game against allies. It's mainly because riflemen/sovs combo. Unless they get very lucky or they are playing against bad players.
Plus Allies just have dirty tactics to dominate early game. FHQ, Good Support Weapon Spam, my beautiful Rifle Company, and Snipers.
superior support teams? apart from snipers, a well placed mg42 is difficult to dig out and every other support team just out performs soviet counter parts. pak is tons better than the zis who only has easily dodged barrage in place of half the AT dps and wehr mortar with its machinegun rate is just that much better. 120mm beats it but that is 400mp vs 240mp investment. mht is still amazing with its mobility and incendiary rounds.
maxim spam is an issue but a small one as long as people counter it properly. 1 or 2 mht shuts it down really hard. you can shell them and burn them out. 40+kills on the mht against a maxim player is quite common. and for okw, gang on him, coordinate with your ally and try to achieve indirect fire superiority. 1 goes stuka, another goes puma to guard it and give sight.
rifles being superior is also a myth. apart from m1919 lmg rifles, infantry are pretty balanced. grens have just as much chance to kill rifles at range and the early mg42 prevents rifles from getting too close, same with volks + sturms. also, grens and volks gets grenades without specifically spending resources for it. obers still shred everything.
A well placed smoke nade will make the machine gun useless. A m3 scout car will make a mg useless. 2-3 shots with a sniper will make the mg42 retreat unless the opponent isn't paying attention. They're are plentiful ways to counter it even it's in a good position. Add the bugs (Deploying wrong way is more crucial to MG42 due to slow set up time)and you got yourself a gamble machine gun.
Paks being better than Zis3? At vet yes, due to target weak point. It isn't the pak's stats that's so good about, rather it's the low armour tanks that the allies have. Yes, it may have a slightly faster ROF but that's about it. I'll take the 6 man squad any day compared to the slightly faster rof. Mortars I never included in the list for a reason.
Yes, maxims have a skinnier arc and has the issue where it takes a long time to recrew it as it's retreating. It's overall better due to it's survivability, fast deploy time, and damage that it does to infantry. I prefer the maxim over the mg42 but I prefer the mg34 over the maxim.
"Rifles being superior is just a myth"....
From the stats: 0 Meters Range: Riflemen: 28.45 Grens: 23.67
10 Meters Range: Riflemen: 19.99 Grens: 17.09
20 Meters Range: Riflemen: 12.14 Grens: 13.2
30 Meters range: Riflemen: 9.64 Grens: 9.95
Very little difference DPS wise. But guess what, riflemen are a 5 man squad! Plus add a BAR in there and you can already outperform them. Before you say, "well upgrade grens to lmg42s". Ostheer is a munitions starved faction already. They need 222 upgrade in case, flamethrowers in case, teller mines in case or shrecks. Riflemen are superior, which is fine because they have a strong early game but a weak late game.
Please, look at the volk's dps and of course 2 squads will beat one riflemen... Obers are strong but they aren't that amazing anymore plus they come much later. By then your riflemen would be at vet 2 or upgunned with weapon upgrades.
Yes i do believe there are a lot of exaggeration in this thread. But i have to agree with the general sentiment.
The overall design that axis are just better late game is a slipery slope. To an extent it is fine but when playing as allies against evenly matched team (3v3+), it is like a ticking time bomb and that sucks.
This makes any mistakes made by allies at every stage of the game matter more because an early game mistake means you lose the only advantage and during late game, you need every bit of your army to deal with obers and super tanks.
P.s. jagdtiger really relic? Shooting through walls + extra damage + extra range + armor of modern tanks + a gigantic health... did we really need more super tanks? Bring ele back to the realm of relevance and banish this shit back to oblivion.
I agree that axis have a superior late hence why I think they are the easier faction to win as. If they didn't have these late game advantages then the game would be absolutely unbalanced. But to win as allies even if you mess up, you have to play dirty. Which means FHQ, mark target, lots, lots of mines and ISU.
Double (or more) OKW teams are "easy" too handle. As you said, the faction has a lack of certain units.
I see OKW as a faction for camping a fuel point, defending it with a couple of subpar AT units (schrecks, racketen, Schwerer Panzer Truck, etc), and trying to harass enemy points with a lot of elite infantry while waiting for the almighty KT to appear for a final push.
The issue is that Ostheer makes up for all the things OKW lacks, and then what it was a desesperate fight for holding map until the KT arrived, turns into a impenetrable wall of MG42, Paks, elite infantry, etc, against which allies can only hold until midgame.
Is then when panzerschrecks really shine, because they are always the decisive factor in the fights between heavy tanks. So, even in the case you have an ISU-152, an IS2 o plenty of Jacksons so fight their KT, Jadgtiger and Elefant; volks and pgrens will always incline the escale to the axis side, giving extra damage from the sides.
Allies have really a lot of trouble dealing with armor lategame. They don't have specialized AT infantry, nor AT emplacements like Pak43, their AT guns are overall inferior to the axis ones, and finally their Tank Hunters lack armor.
It is not strange that axis dominate lategame with these odds against.
The impenetrable wall of mg42... The machine gun is not only buggy (deploys the wrong way and reload glitch) but it has a slow aim time (not traverse). I find the mg42 too be good but no where as good as the mg34. Elite Infantry? You mean Grens that my riflemen can get easy vet from them. They're good with the lmg42, but upgraded riflemen can still take them on.
Pshrecks shining? Against Heavy Tanks. No. Against medium armor, I agree. IS2s can still squad wipe Pgrens. ISU, maybe, if you flank it and manage to kill it's supporting infantry. You're definitely right about the jacksons and other medium Armour.
Allies do have a hard time against axis, but that's only if you allow them to get those tanks! I like the standard ZIS more than a pak but a vetted pak is by far superior.
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Maximus Awsomnius
Diet Brownie
Relic Entertainment
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