I wasn't trying to say they're exactly comparable, but a number of base problematic ideas are the same.
Trenches = basically invulnerable to small arms fire, comes way too early = HTD.
Button is exactly the same. I have no idea how anyone doesn't have a problem with this magic ability. Apparently LMG bullets can stop a 30 ton tank in its tracks!
Barrage abilities = non doctrinal artillery piece that comes early and capable of doing big damage to infantry.
Clown Car = units firing with brilliant accuracy from vehicles. Nobody, NOBODY liked the bren carrier or the kangaroo.
Oorah I suppose is more like fireup except it has no drawback and is instantly available versus just on elite infantry later on, ie sort of like heroic charge. The core issue with it is that like a lot of abilities, it's a complete no brainer. I will always, 100% of the time use Oorah. Cheap as chips, no downside.
And while the support teams aren't exactly emplacements, they might as well be moveable ones. You cannot counter a 6man soviet mortar team, especially not the doc one, with the german one (just like the mortar pit) and the MAXIM cannot be flanked and basically cannot be dislodged from a building in the early / mid game.
TLDR: There will of course be similarities to everything, but I see a lot of the stuff that went wrong with Brits (and to a lesser extent PE) going on with Sovs right now. The Ost play much the same as the Wehr and that's fine in my book. An Ost/Ost mirror matchup is actually more fun right now than the Ost/Sov one.
For the record, I've played vCoH since day 1 and at some point or another have been level 16 in 1v1 and 2v2 with all factions. I'm by no stretch an all star, but I've been around the block.
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Probably. If I tech to T4 the first thing I will be buying will be a Panther because it's the only thing in T4 worth getting. After that 165 fuel is gone, it's very unlikely I'll have the 85 or whatever for the Werfer later, either because I'll need another panther or an ost or something. It's also a poor investment because it dies to ANYTHING and the barrage is, quite frankly, pathetic. It's the same reason nobody buys Katyusha.
The only time I use it is when I'm heavily winning already and just kind of want the lulz for some barraging. |
What I was honestly hoping for for doctrines in CoH2 was the ability to bring several with you and then be able to change which one is active at the cost of resetting the CP.
The bulletins thus far don't seem to have any meaningful impact. +3% gren/cons health amounts to 0.03 * 80 => 2.4 more health per model. Could that turn a very close fight? Yep. Will it really change anything in the big picture? Nope.
Personally, that's fine with me. The CoHO ones were insane, something like +24% volks health which made a HUGE difference. These are enough to minorly adjust some behaviors but otherwise you can basically ignore them. |
Ermmm how can a really good player dodge them?? By retreating? Surely that means you get map control?
I do agree it's strong however, IMO a change should be made so that damage output is reduced while ability is active to something like x0.75 damage dealt which would mean that it's not so powerful when used with hoorah to close the distance.
End of the day though, that doctrine is very "meh" apart from PPSH and HTD for conscripts, no super tank which means that Ost T3 can be very very tough to deal with so it does have to be strong.
The point is that while playing Germans I am forced to dump every single munition I have into rifle/bundled nades to counter this essentially free spammable ability. Even if I force a retreat a few times, I am down munitions and they'll just be back and do it again. It's a downward slope, basically.
I would be happy if (any / all):
- flamers did more damage to HTD
- HTD reduced accuracy / fire rate / reload rate
- HTD had a large-ish window (5 sec?) after activating in which the squad couldn't retreat, so if someone charges and HTDs and gets surprised by a bundle in the face there's a penalty.
I'm not against the core idea of the ability which is to let conscripts hold their ground more effectively - I'm against the absolutely braindead manner in which it is currently implemented. |
I'm done playing this game 1v1 as Germans until HTD is fixed or until someone points out something very obvious I am missing.
I usually dominate the early game, pre doctrine. I almost always win the first several engagements with grens. Then HTD gets unlocked and from there on out it's GG. I cannot hold any ground because conscripts Ooorah to close the gap, HTD inside the cap circle, then molotov if I stick around.
I can push them back sometimes with bundle nades, maybe a lucky rifle nade, but there aren't enough munitions to counter the constant HTD and a really good player can still dodge them.
Eventually map control fails, tech fails, and now there's a T70 or T34 and I have nothing.
I have tried:
-Bundle nades
-Rifle nades
-Flamethrower pios
-Flamethrower HT (that's a huge gamble to save munis for the upgrade, basically last ditch effort by the time it gets out and usually met with armor)
-Mortar
-Sniper (sniper seems to miss HTD regularly?!)
Aaaand... that's basically it because I'll never to get T3 and if I do won't be able to save 115 fuel for an Ost.
The doubly frustrating part is that whenever I use this tactic as the Sovs it is stupidly effective, so I don't feel like I am just "missing something", though I am happy to be enlightened. |
Finally hit me today why I dislike the Sovs in this game so much. They're the CoH2 analogue to Brits in CoH1.
Clown Car => Bren in Bren.
HTD => Trenches
Button => Button
Huge crew support weapons => (moveable) emplacements (extremely hard to kill / dislodge)
Oorah => Heroic Charge
SU76 + ZIS barrage => non doctrinal powerful artillery
Of course some stuff is fixed like stupid slow infantry movement and ultra linear teching, but most of the BS "magic" stuff is there. DID ANYONE THINK BUTTON WAS A GOOD IDEA IN COH1?!
Now I'm sad. |
Things I would rather buy than a Pak40:
1.) One and three quarters pioneer squads whose role will be AT focused
2.) Two un-upgraded bunkers overlooking the same point
3.) A vCoH officer with 38% cost increase due to import tax
4.) A german mortar
5.) A german sniper
6.) A second german mortar
That is all.
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The biggest issue for me isn't actually seeing enemy units killed, although that's certainly nice to have.
It's seeing which of my own units are dying. In CoH1 you'd get "pity XP" for your units that died. The XP part isn't important, it was important to be able to very clearly see that a squad is losing guys.
As it stands right now, I've actually completely missed that a sniper is killing guys in a squad until the 2nd or 3rd shot. Granted partly that's because sniper rifles don't have the same "boom" and tracer as in CoH1, but it's because I get absolutely zero feedback from the main game display unless I have that squad selected and see the number go down. |
@Fortune
Sorry buddy but the numbers are totally against you.
If you are extremly lucky you might kill of 1 or 2 soldiers on retreat but in most cases you won't. Simply because of the bad accuracy of this vehicle.
If the 221 is on the move and fires against a target walking/retreating over light cover it only has 12.5% * 0.5 * 0.5 = 3.125% accuarcy. CAN happen but in most cases you wont even hit shit.
The M3A1 in the same scenario has 37% * 0.5 * 0.5 = 9,25% accuracy.
And that's IMHO the major thing about the SdKfz - its bad accuarcy of 12.5% (vs 37% of the M3A1).
Just saw it today in match again:
The SdKfz does some dammge and actually kills a combar egineer capping a strat point and i think "oh oh, see, yes, it does damage" but right after it shoots for seconds not doing a thing.
The accuracy should be increased by a fair amount, even alter the weapon damage down to keep the dps balanced. But PLEASE more accuarcy to make more reliable.
ace
Anyone who has played CoH1 knows that the secret is to use the vehicle speed to close the gap in between bursts and fire stationary. Massively increases accuracy vs retreating. |
I don't think it's the Pak43 itself - it's mostly the maps. Unless you're playing 3v3+, none of the maps have enough open areas to make its massive reach worthwhile since there will always be buildings, hedges, etc in the way. Nobody really built 88s on CoH1 maps like Ruins or Lorraine for the same reason. Maybe one exception to this is Pripyat if you can just focus it on the center VP area, but meh. That map is kind of lame.
Coupled with true sight and lack of auto rotation, it does need to be babysat quite a bit. That all being said, when it works it feels more powerful than the 88. /shrug. I've not yet really made a decision whether I like it or not. Giving it a decent muni cost indirect fire mode might be interesting, though might be a bit much. |