I think more than anything Germans are missing important parts of what makes up an army.
Shock troops and su 85s, kv8s, is152s, is2 that squad wipe, 2 man sniper teams, 6 man support crews. These things mean you are always at a disadvantage until you make an advantage. You cant fight on equal terms with Sovs, due to smaller squads vs largers squads, and German armor not having anywhere near the anti infantry effectiveness of Sov armor(especially considering German armor is already facing larger numbers of inf). The range, sight and accuracy of the su 85s mean you cannot fight it on equal ground as well.
I dont feel Sovs are op but I do feel like germans are gimped. If they would've given coh2 Germans the exact same army and doctrines as coh1, the Germans would have everything they need to fight the Sovs on equal terms or advantageously. But they removed some of the best features of Wehrmacht and left them with gaping holes. Not having a puma meant that t70s got so out of control they had to nerf them. Not having bikes means you have to suicide rush su 85 spammers and they too got nerfed. Not having bikes let the sniper/flamer scout combo get out of control.
The gwagon with its paper thin armor but long range would've been a great match for the su 85. Units that cost no fuel in t4 would've gave other options then just building panther or p4. Having an officer to force retreat shock troops? Shock troop blob vs sturmtruppen? Pumas to protect the flanks of your at guns? Like I stated earlier, I don't think the Sovs are op but ,especially to Coh1 vets, feel incomplete.
Amen.
It's my feeing that CoH2 sees a lot fewer soft counters than vCoH did. Units that should be effective aren't, either (Cons and ATGs should be just as terrifying as BAR'd Rifles and ATGs, not because of that cheese "huehuehue I make PaK ded hue hue" barrage). Then we have Panthers ignoring effing everything in their path because of their onboard hyperdrive and towed (and now teddy bear-proofed) shield bunker. I see where the devs were coming from, but trying to take WM and PE, one in each hand (in the manner of, say, holding a lump of Play-Do) and mashing them together to see what happens was a terrible idea.
Pile on the fact that the infantry (and, imho, tank) combat/damage system(s) are piss poor and RNG based in a way that makes vCoH's coding weep, and you get CoH2. I honestly feel the Eastern Front mods did a far better job than the CoH2 devs (even if the EF Ostheer is spotty in balance terms).
Katikof, m8, if you're really that bent on the Soviets being OP, find something equally abusive to counter them. |
Cool. What do soviets get to fight off elephant with its great range?
And Panther have more then enough armor to shrug off that SU-85 single shell until it gets within firing range.
Can T34 and IS-2 have blitz too? You know... elephant again.
Hurr dee durr, the Elefant is doctrinal, so there's no issue!
/sarcasm off
Overdrive was a get out of jail free card in vCoH. Thing was, it was used only by the Cromwell, which happened to suck against most tanks. It used Overdrive to flank those tanks or to scurry around a PaK. In CoH2 we now have ubermensch Panzers running around at even sillier speeds, whilst reaming infantry AND tanks that they encounter. And god forbid you actually take damage whilst doing this, you just pop smoke and gain instant immunity from fire. Is it expensive? Yes. Why does that justify it being broken as all hell? Even the AI is a massive pain in the ass when using Blitz, that should send up warning flags right there. |
"An anti-tank gun killed my tank! Nerf it into oblivion!!11eleven"
This is why we can't have nice things (like modding tools, Sega. Ahem.) |
Do you want your pios dead? Do you want any of your squad dead? I don't. Maybe I would consider it if they were able to take a gun and immobilize panthers/elephants with that suicide of yours, other then that you need to play less spamcraft, baneling idea will not translate into CoH2.
Give me one reason why would I want a squad that performs worse then conscripts, arrives later, scales worse and is suppose to die.
One sane, logical reason.
You're drifting into the realm of dream wishes. Nothing like that will ever happen.
Seeing as
A) I didn't have a clue what the f**k you were talking about until I used Google
B) I never played Scrubcraft and never intend to play that turd of a game
C) Thought up that idea for a unit concept myself
your logic extends no further than "I perceive this to be an attempt to nerf the Soviets".
Why would you want them? You could have a 200 MP squad that could pick up HHAT and other dropped slot-item weapons, satchel everything in sight, still Oorah around the map if you managed not to get them killed, and can be used en-masse in conjunction with AT nades, Button, or suppression effects to generally shit on the nearest baddy-who-cannot-micro's day. As for scaling, I can see no reason why Penals should become super duper great for late-game combat as your bread-and-butter units. They're a specialist (see: produced from Special Rifle Command) squad that was likely intended for this very role, but the devs went "well, we gave Guards DPs and Shock Troops PPShs, so who the blank do we give the Tokarev rifles to? F it, give them to Penals."
@ Oz, thanks for the supportive input. I'll end up modding that (if and when tools are released) in any event. EF mod did everything so much better than Sega did. |
As much as I hate to say it, I don't buy the whole "they were super experienced" line. Troops sent to a penal detachment strike me as looters and 'cowards', not sane individuals who tried to improvise. I would say just make them into cheap (200 or less MP) 'suicide' troops with team weapon Mosins (less DPS iirc) and the satchel ability, and make them fit only for "I want THAT unit dead" duty.
Then we can move the SVTs to Guards as an upgrade and undo their silly "huehuehue PTRS team" getup.
Add a cheap (240 MP) four-man PTRS team with a pair of PTRS' to T2 as an anti LV option (note, this is still T2, so it's no worse than facing an ATG in terms of teching) to finally give the Soviets some reliable non-doctrinal HHAT. Guards become ranged AI elites, while shock troops are your CQB go-tos.
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If they were 6 pop instead of 9, I'd tolerate them. Right now they just eat too much pop. |
49: Rather than using them to mow down enemy soldiers, the NKVD used the Maxims issued to blocking detachments to shoot their own men in the back, even if they were advancing on enemy positions (yunno, for shiggles). |
I so rarely use the IS-2, even in team games, due to the 9 CP and high fuel cost. If it's wiping your squads then you're presenting it infantry to shoot--and thus, you're doing it wrong. |
Off-putting when they can wade through the fire of 3 LMGs and 9 rifles .-. |
27: Experienced Guards troops were the only men that were ever issued with DP light machine guns. The DP was not, in fact, an integral part of every 12-man Soviet squad.
28: Penal Battalions were considered the elite of all Soviet forces, and were thus the only men able to wield the Tokarev SVT self-loading rifle. Men that are falsely considered to be recipients of the weapon include but aren't limited to: experienced engineering units, Guards rifle infantry units, paratroopers, Soviet Marines, and NKVD infantry squads.
29: The T70 light tank was capable of unleashing retarded amounts of shellfire, even though the turret was cramped and the tank commander had to direct his tank, aim, fire, reload, and, in the case of group commanders, hang out of the copula and wave flags to direct other Soviet tanks.
30: Grenadiere were useless in close combat; the attack philosophy of the Heer was not, in fact, to advance under cover from GPMGs to attack the enemy at close range with the grenade and the bayonet.
31: Panzergrenadiere were the only troops to be issued with the MP44.
32: Panzergrenadiere were issued only MP44s and the Panzershreck, never actually been issued GPMGs in reality (the notion that mid-war 10 man Panzergrenadiere squads were issued an MP40, pair of GPMGs, one or two semi-automatic rifes, and a rifle grenade projector--the highest concentration of firepower in any infantry squad in WWII--is completely false).
33: The StuG III was, despite an impressive 13:1 KDR, an inaccurate little turd of a machine only suitable for spewing out shells at long range and hoping to god they hit something.
34: Almost untrained, Conscripts could still match Grenadiere and Panzergrenadiere in terms of marksmanship.
35: Conscripts, despite having no technical experience as peasants living in Russia, were able to repair just about anything they saw.
36: The Red Army only issued F1 and RGD grenades to elite units--everyone else had to make due with Molotov cocktails.
37: The Maxim HMG, despite weighing almost twice as much as the MG42, was more mobile, could pin troops far more effectively, and was capable of dealing more damage than its modern opponent.
38: Infantrymen missed most of their shots, even at point blank range.
39: Experienced infantry units had a 50% chance of deflecting incoming rounds, while assault infantry with body armor rated for deflecting 9mm rounds at 100m could in fact endure heavy shellfire and were unkillable with small arms.
40: The ZiS-3, despite being less produced than the M42 45mm ATG until after the battle of Kursk, was the primary anti-tank weapon of the Red Army.
41: Mounting the ZiS-3 on the chassis of the T70 light tank reduced its effective penetration ability and kinetic damage.
42: The Tiger and Panther could absorb shellfire even at point blank range and when damaged at vulnerable points.
43: Infantrymen didn't know how to string barbed wire or dig holes for mines, while engineering units didn't know how to dig trenches or stack sandbags.
44: Engineering units gained experience in battlefield repairs by shooting the enemy in the face.
45: Engineering units were less combat effective than infantry, despite being issued with the same weapons, given more effective training, and possessing good leadership.
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