In vcoh I used pg or strom trooper shrekd army alot. Tanks in vcoh were not so deadly vs inf as they are in coh2 so an all inf army was absolutely feasible. This went triple for pe tank hunters with the extra man upgrades and sprint. After the pe blob hit critical mass and vetted, they were near unstoppable.
Ou contrare. My Shermans who can reliably take out 1-3 PGs a shell at long range would like to have a word with you. Since vCoH tanks used accuracy instead of scatter, they are far more reliable. I know this from a lot of playing Europe in Ruins: Reinforcements mod (which is basically vCoH with persistent, vetted units in pre-set companies--every lost soldier entity matters) where infantry sniping/AI capabilities make the Sherman, StuG, Panzer IV, and Cromwell goldmines for your average EiR company.
In CoH2 I can regularly rage at my screen for the comparatively piss poor job my T-34s do against infantry.
Shrek'd PGs are massive problem in CoH2 relative to vCoH shrecks. Even PG blobs take it up the ass from competent Quad, .30 cal, BAR, Sherman, and/or Sniper micro, as well as the strafing run and 105 barrages. In CoH2 the pin-centric strafe is used by Germany. The best the Soviets can hope for is a lucky Katyusha or howitzer strike (against massed Shrecks). |
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I read only the first page.
The biggest issue with Soviet tanks wasn't down to the raw performance, the engine, the armor, the gun. It was the poor optics, poor vision from within the tank, and terrible layout that made crew communication a nightmare. T-34-85s didn't even get radios as standard equipment until late 1943 iirc.
German anti-tank gun crews reported being able to fire 2-3 shells at a T-34 before the crew was able to react accordingly--this is from Operation Barbarossa, where the PaK 36 was more effective than what it's often credited with. German tank crews could have shells out in reply to Soviet ATG crews after the first or second shot from the ATG, because their vehicles had better optics, vision ports, and above all, a radio for every vehicle and a comms system for every tank.
If the T-34 had had those boons, it would have been a far more effective vehicle. Raw armor/speed/whatever can often lose out to the human element. You can't shoot what you can't see. |
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What I hope will happen:
Conscripts either become more accurate, deal more damage per shot, or have a cooldown reduction to make them as DPS-y as Grenadiers. Not having access to hard numbers, I can generate none of my own.
Guards are deployed without PTRS rifles equipped and can either upgrade them instantly and for free, or, if the user so chooses, can buy only DPs (and thus, avoid the threat of being nothing more than a slot item piñata).
Grenadiers have their DPS toned back in some fashion, unless the buff I hope is coming for Conscripts makes the latter powerful enough to hit back on equal footing.
The LMG42 is made into more of a CQ upgrade, as it was in vCoH. Upgrading one right now is an instant meat grinder; I have repeatedly seen players leave LMG Grens in light cover, or out in the open, where they eat one or two Conscripts attempting to shoot them from cover at any range, charge up and unleash a Molotov into their faces, or generally do anything whilst being in range.
The T-34 obr 1942/Kliment Voroshilov 1 F-34 76.2mm cannon either gets a 10mm penetration buff (up from the deplorable 80 it has as of now) or deals 160 damage per shot (equal to the Panzer IV; that it has worse penetration AND damage in the face of sizably larger health pools and ridiculous armor counts is...well, ridiculous). For the record, I prefer the latter change (damage per shell boost).
Panther health reduced to 742 from 900 (equal to vCoH values).
Tiger health reduced to 800-900 from 1280. Rear armor reduced from 150 from 250.
Panzergrenadiere cost reduced to 300 Manpower from 340 Manpower. Squad would be produced with Grenadier K98ks, and could upgrade with either dual Panzershrecks (120 Munitions) or four StG 44s (100 MU). Entity armor increased to 1.5 from 1.2.
Grenadier rifle grenades disabled while suppressed (the weapon requires the soldier to be crouched or standing in order to fire accurately and safely).
Molotov Cocktail throwing distance gains a 0.5 modifier (-10 range; ability has 20 range by default) while the squad is suppressed (who here has ever tried to throw something whilst face down in a pile of dirt. How far did that object go?)
PPSh ranged moved more towards that of the MP40 (more viable for mid range combat, it currently requires you to be almost standing atop your target which is no small feat considering the current state of small arms fire).
General damage output of hull and co-axial vehicle weapons equalized; either the DTs need to become more lethal or the MG34s need to lose some of their HUEHUE ability.
Panzer IV KwK 40 L/48 AoE increased to 3 from 2.5.
SU-76M ZiS-3 (AP rounds) damage increased to 120 or 160 from 180 (there, it's useful, we now have a PaK on Kettenkrad treads).
Combat Engineers gain the ability to upgrade themselves with four PPSh submachine guns and body armor (changes animator to that of Shock Troops, increases entity armor to 1.5 from 1) for 100 Munitions (requires Special Rifle Command AND Support Weapon Kompanaya to be constructed).
Pioneer and Combat Engineer veterancy sees their repair rate boost moved to Vet1.
ZiS-3 and PaK 40 penetration increased to 180 or 190 from 170.
Axis vehicle armor slightly reduced, or Axis penetration slightly reduced (messing with Axis penetration matters little if everything they shoot is made of butter, and they bounce 90% of the shots aimed at them).
T-70 45mm cannon penetration increased to 75 from 45 (brought in line with the M42 45mm ATG). Reload time increased to 3s from 2.15s.
KV-1S introduced to Soviet T3 (KV-1 with armor reduced to 215 from 340, and speed increased to 5 from 4.8. Cost remains the same as the doctrinal KV-1. The 1S' was a modification that reduced the frontal armor from 90mm to 75mm, reducing total weight by around 5 tons). Adds a meatier option to the Soviet roster that's not quite as meaty as the standard KV-1, but isn't so cheap as to make the T-34 obr 1942 undesirable.
Axis sniper health increased to 80 (if it already resides at this value, nevermind).
Maxim damage and accuracy increased slightly, and suppression reduced. Less of a suppression tool than a "oh, you're in my arc of fire, you die naow!" weapon. E.g., the .30 cal from vCoH.
DSHk HMG penetration increased to 4.5 from 3.
That's all I can come up with at 12:15 in the morning.
Does my post come off as Soviet-biased with little input for the Germans? Probably. Other than toning down the easiness with which most of their heavier armor and their infantry is used, I think the Ostheer is sitting just about where the CoH2 factions should be sitting. The Soviets, however, need to be brought up to par. The argument that has been raised is that "a good Soviet player will..". Well, most of the population of any given game isn't mind-bogglingly good at said game--faction choice should never be left to skill level. That's like saying the M16A3 in Battlefield 3 was fine and balanced because "a good player would use X to kill the wielder!" (yes, I know it's not a direct comparison--take my drift, please.). Yes, this isn't vCoH. Yes, I'm making a lot of comparisons to vCoH. vCoH is sitting pretty good on its balance and it's a good place to start, rather than bungling around with stat changes until something clicks like we (the CoH2 community/devs/whoever) have been. If you disagree with any of the stats I've put up, please state why, exactly, and offer finite values and, if applicable, plausible alternatives.
If I was to answer directly to the OP, I'd say the Soviets get overbuffed and the Ostheer nerfed into oblivion, because Relic/Sega has never been a company set in small tweaks to statistics.
EDIT: Nerf the health values of the Soviet heavies as well, if they're too high.
EDIT EDIT: The ISU and IS only have 960 health? Wat?
EDIT EDIT EDIT: The Combat Engineers PPSh-thing is a historical-thing-that-also-works-for-gameplay; would represent a Soviet Assault Sapper Battalion (basically, what Shock Troops are in game except they were an engineering unit, and so they had ungodly amounts of AT rifles and flamethrowers at the company level). |
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