Yea, this thing is probably the most useless unit in the game since it can be decrewed.
So IMO it just needs to be more durable, maybe vulnerable to flamers but not small arms. Also it could use a good penetration (I honestly don't know its current pen!!!), just to keep light vehicles (not mediums) at bay, and not counter them completely. Or maybe a Munition switch (HE for AoE damage and Suppression, AP for armor and Aircrafts).
Pretty much this, although I'd rather it have very low pen (works vs. HTs, that's about it) but lots of suppression. Basically a 'bofors-lite'; no brace, no self-repair, useless vs. medium vehicles, but amazing vs. infantry.
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Stick with it or switch to OKW, but know that OST is an incredibly difficult and punishing faction to play right now. I've been playing Ost since closed alpha, and up until about last month couldn't get into top 200.
I switched to OKW and within a week was top 130.
This is mainly due to the blob meta and having little to counter it.
Combine that with OST mainline infantry being by far the squishiest (except cons, but everyone goes penal) and can only upgrade to a single LMG compared to most other factions double-LMG. On top of that there's 30mp reinforce cost AND 4-man squad size; they're just insanely weak.
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Thanks for the suggestions.
I think that might work, I'll pick up Feuersturm when I can (need 250points, so 1 drop).
Vs. Soviets and penal spam, it's only really a problem when it's supported by a brit playing aggressively, so I think that this will fix both problems. |
Yea, basically. Multi-brit team-games, especially as OKW, are pretty much impossible due to this. IF you're lucky they'll go emplacement com which is somehow easier to play against and you might stand a chance.
(actually the UKF faction needs to be reworked).
Pretty much. The whole faction revolves around either annoying (bofors), illogical (MG out-ranging snipers), useless (17lb, churchill), or just plain boring (mortar pit) units.
Even if stuff like royal arty was fixed, it wouldn't really 'fix' the faction. It's so fundamentally flawed that all it would do is force players to use even fewer (and more boring) strategies.
We already have the 24/7 penal spam meta on one faction, the last thing we need is to make another faction insanely 2-dimensional (literally everyone would pick emplacement com).
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So it's been almost a month. Is there an OKW counter for this, or is it just a case of hoping you massively outplay/RNG aggressive brits? Combined with penal spam in 2v2 it seems pretty much impossible to win unless you massively outplay them.
It's basically gotten to the point that vs. any team without brits, my win rate is probably 75%, but with a single brit its probably 20%. |
Recently I decided to start playing OKW (instead of OST), and things have been going fairly well (currently around #130 in 2v2). Against Sov and USF I find that I can do fairly well, but against Brits (especially aggressive ones), I find that I get completely pushed off the map.
The build I usually have problems with is mean starting IS -> MG -> Carrier -> IS.
My usual build is Kubel -> 3x Volks -> tech into battlegroup for a fast flak-HT and ISGs.
What usually happens is that the IS with a supporting MG gets into a useful position, covering a fuel point or VP. This usually isn't too much of a problem, since flanking with Sturms can deal the MG fairly well. The problem is once the carrier hits, there's not a lot I can do. The carrier's MG does enough damage that a single flanking sturm squad is forced to retreat fairly quickly.
I would try to flank with another Volks squad, but since I only have 2 at this time, they both need to be fighting the IS (1v1, specially vs. cover doesn't seem to work).
I've considered switching the 3rd volks for a raketten, but I think this might weaken power vs. infantry a bit too much.
Any suggestions for this problem?
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This is particularly bad on building-heavy maps, such as Schilberg, Trois-ponts or Lierneux, since the MG gets the massive range bonus from any of the buildings. |
Honestly, there's not a lot that needs to be changed for CoH3 to be a great game; the game play is fundamentally great, as is the general design. There's really just a few 'key' things that need to be done in a specific way to ensure a fantastic game (most of these would be done anyway).
New engine. I feel like we've fallen into the problem where the same engine gets upgrades and additions, but they only end up making things worse. Essence 3 is really just a large update to 2, which was an update to 1... which shipped with CoH1; 10 years ago (+years of development). Let's say the engine took 1.5 years to develop - that puts the planning phase back in early 2005; before even Core 2 Duo was a thing.
Only so many things can be added to the initial framework before a total restart or overhaul is needed. Multi-core CPUs are standard in even the most budget-oriented of laptops, multi-GPU setups are far more common, 64-bit is basically universal (as well as 8gb+ of ram)... but CoH2 doesn't take advantage of any of these things for one reason or another. Combine that with all the other performance problems people talk about, and a new engine is pretty much a necessity.
They could easily license a 3rd-party engine (there's a lot of very high-end engines out there) that would solve pretty much every problem; I'm just unsure about how much work would be needed to get a proper RTS framework up.
New patch schedule. I think we can all agree that COH2's patch history hasn't been as good as it could have been. In general, patches need to be smaller and quicker. The whole "giant patch every quarter" thing doesn't work in a competitive game, where a small change can cause a massive swing in the meta, causing massive problems.
What we need is a weekly "update" system, where small things can be changed by small amounts. Is the AEC under-performing? Let's buff one stat and see how that works. Is it still weak next week? Buff it a small amount again. The whole "buff 5 stats" and then don't update the game for a month thing doesn't work - it makes people stop playing while they wait for a patch. At most, something should only be glaringly OP/UP for a week or so.
More evident 'design document'. I think one of the main problems in figuring out how things should be balanced in COH2 (at least from the communities view) is the lack of any idea on how certain factions are supposed to play. For example, the USF is supposed to be a combined arms "flexible" faction, but instead is played like a giant blob. OKW is supposed to be the resource starved faction with expensive but powerful late-game vehicles, but instead floats tons of MP and generally uses lots of infantry backed up by massive amounts of tanks.
Let's get some clear documentation on how the units, and the game, is supposed to play.
More focus. This is probably the most debatable idea, but I personally think the game would need a lot more 'focus' in order to become an "E-sports" competitive game. What I mean by that is focus in design and balance; it's hard to support 4v4 comp-stomp bridge maps AND 1v1 close-quarters maps with the exact same units and changes. It's also hard to support a game which is often extremely contradictory.
On the one hand, we have focus on tactical movement (cover to cover), flanking (true-sight) and positioning (weapon facing, optimal ranges, etc.); but on the other hand we have stuff like the IR-halftrack (ignores true sight), a blob-focused meta (ignores flanking) and LMGs being best in almost every situation.
Then there's emplacement-heavy factions (UKF), mobile bases (OKW flak base), forward retreat points (just mass-retreat your blob and attack 30 seconds later), various AoE duration abilities (loiters, long-duration targeted arty, etc.). None of these play to the game's strong points.
If it were up to me, I would strongly focus the game on smaller-scale tactics. The maps can stay about the same size (although 2v2 maps in 1v1 are too big), but let's get it to a point were you only have 4-5 squads and 2-3 vehicles at one point; not 5 panthers and 6 volks. Similarly, offensive emplacements should just be removed (use sandbags instead), forward retreating should be removed (although forward healing is OK). Of course, all of this would require a MUCH more responsive game as well as much better and more predictable pathing.
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Refined placement matches. Kind of small, but it's really needed for new players. No one wants to get crushed 10 times in a row. Instead, when a totally new player starts the game, give them a 'default' ELO score (like 1,000). While their rank shouldn't be shown until a few placement matches have been played (ideally, 5), just use that 1,000 ELO starting point like any other score.
Also, when playing new factions, just average the player's existing ELO score; a different faction isn't an entirely new game - the player will still have a good understanding of counters, micro, game mechanics, etc.
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Double LMG upgrading via muni needs to be removed; the DPS/model just gets to a point where it's so high that all but vet3 infantry (and even then, that might not help) becomes completely useless.
A long, long time ago, double LMG-grens were a thing; they were insane. That much firepower, combined with being behind green cover, made a single squad basically unbeatable. Cons (iirc this was just after release, so no USF/UKF) just couldn't get close enough to do anything. Your only hope was support weapons or vehicles, but then you get into the problem of requiring insane investments to beat T0 mainline infantry. Obviously, that double upgrade was removed (as was the subsequent LMG/G43 combo) because it was just too powerful.
Currently the weapon racks present the exact same problem: insane DPS on single squads, with the added bonus of firing while moving for BARs. Combine that with 'Vet 3 turbo mode' rifle squads, and you've got the exact same problem as the old double LMG-grens vs. cons.
Suggested solution: Make the weapon racks only give one weapon, just like everyone else. If you find another weapon in the field, then great, you've got your double-upgraded unit again; but that will be fairly rare compared to the current double-upgrades.
To compensate, I would buff the weapons in question by (at most) 30%; that way a single upgrade-squad will have around 65% of the DPS of a current double-upgraded squad. |
The only 'BIG' changes left are things such as removing double-upgrades from mainline infantry (although HOW to go about this is undecided), possibly something to help with blob control (personally suggest increased supression AoE or negative zeal), and then just 'cheese' fixes (bofors nerf, OKW-flakHQ, etc.).
After that point it's mostly small stuff, like others have said: turn speeds, slight RoF changes, adjustments to some docs to make them more viable, etc. And then there's bug fixes (i.e. bugs that impact gameplay consistently).
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-I've played NS2 but I had no idea about what you said! It's sounds interesting, but I'm not sure about the outcome (whether the community like the changes or not). But still, I think NS is far more easier to balance than CoH. NS2 is also not a competitive game (as far as I know), but CoD is. People on the balance team would then be unable to participate in Tournaments and arguments. They would also be the target of hate and rage, I don't know if anyone is willing to do that. Look at the amount of unconstructive criticism (hate) aimed at Miragelfa and Cruzz, and all they did was release mods!
The outcome has actually been very good, at least from what I've seen; and the community seems to agree. They've changed/added things such as new UI scaling, a new server browser, hit-box fixes, new maps, new 'alien vision' modes, as well as a large amount of well-deserved balance changes. I can't speak about the NS2 competitive scene, but playing on a standard server is much more competitive than something like CoD, and arguably even COH2's 3v3 and 4v4 modes (team-strategy is required, as are knowledge of counters, certain tactics, etc.)
There is definitely a problem in getting people involved with a 'patch' team, though. I'm really unsure as to how things would be handled regarding tournaments, debates, etc.
I meant both How to select and Whom to select. Is it even up to us?
Community vote? I'd say have a minimum bar of entry: top-20 with ALL factions in 1v1, and/or an existing and maintained balance mod. They can get added to the list of candidates, and from there the community can vote on it. I would say limit it to about 8-10 people total. Of course, the devs would end up having final say on who is in, but I would hope they would be reasonable.
We would never have consensus, that's why the team should have a tie breaker (Odd number). But again, a lot of good players contradict each other on the forums left and right. Their play style, the meta, and a lot of other factors affect balance (Duuuh), and the players perspective and play style should be counted as an important factor. Based on what I've seen, I think (simply an opinion not a fact) that we would not have consensus.
I would have to disagree; consensus, at least among the team would almost be required. These players wouldn't be "one faction" players - they would be experts with all of them. If Player A thinks A is OP and B thinks it is fine, A could demonstrate how it is OP. After several trials (as well as consulting other team members), a decision could be made fairly easily as to if the thing in question as OP or not. In essence, a top-tier player won't be beaten by the same strategy over and over again, provided that it is balanced.
A great example is 'PioSpam' from CoH1. When it was first mentioned on a forum, people said "yea, easy to beat it". IIRC the creator (Mags? Something like that) then beat every single challenger, and went on to play auto-match, announcing "I'm going to PioSpam" at the start of each match... and continued to win.
Of course, not everything is going to be as insanely overpowered as PioSpam, but in those cases, the team can trial SMALL changes (+/-10% type changes) in a balance mod.
Don't completely agree with this. I don't wanna name anyone, but we have top 50 players who are good at the game, but their discussions regarding balance are illogical and biased.
Unfortunately, since COH2's competitive community is so small, top-50 isn't all that amazing (IMO). It's definitely good, but I can't think of a single time when a top-50 player won a tournament over a bunch of top-10 players; there's just too big of a skill gap.
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