Yea this unit is broken especially due to the fact that completely negates CAMMO! But I hardly see this unit in team games but yea some sort of update to this unit is needed.
???
This thing is basically a "must build" in 3v3 and 4v4 at decent levels (or higher). The amount of information it gives is absurd, and it does so at an incredibly low cost and pop. Its utility is especially strong when combining it with various on-map arty units (LeFH, W-Stuka, PW).
On narrow maps like Redball it can watch over an entire 'lane', giving you either 100% protection from flanks, or an early warning for attacks.
"Should ultimate hardcounter to everything that has legs kill static targets with legs in range?"
Yes, yes it should.
That's pretty much what Incendiary is saying, while pointing out that the Brummbar can't do that.
The KV8 is a heavy tank dedicated to taking out 'soft' targets, and can do so exceptionally well. The Brum is supposed do be the same thing, but requires FAR more micro to be effective, and even then can't win against two ATGs.
Would it be possible to replace the current "X-Ray vision" with normal sight? It seems to me that using normal vision would fix most, if not all, of the problems the unit currently has.
Here’s how you fix the IR HT: It doesn’t reveal units but just marks units for better accuracy of IR STGs firing at them. You can then give a few more units IR stgs to make this an army dynamic.
This could also work, but "IR Sights" would need to be an upgrade on more than just infantry. Requiring a unit to be both seen by the IRHT and be fired on by IR-equipped squads would make it incredibly niche. Adding an "IR-Sight" upgrade for the Panther (this was a real thing) and possibly the JP4 would give this new roll a bit more utility.
Short range for attack ground and manual attack. The siege barrage ability could have 50-60 range.
Yea, that 50-60 range barrage would make it useless. Right now, as Sander93 said (below), it's a very high skill "anti-infantry" unit; but you need to 'skill-shot' (auto-fire off, attack ground) 100% of its shots for it to be any good.
If you remove that play-style, you're left with a tank that can't hit infantry (barrage would be too slow and easy to dodge), but also one where it needs to get into AT range to do anything useful (there's a lot of 60-range Allied AT). Consider how often the JT's "barrage" ability is used (i.e. almost never), then consider that it would have ~half the range, less armor, and less HP.
The Brummbar isn't easy to balance. Mostly because of the huge skill ceiling. The current Brummbar is absolutely devastating in the hands of a good player who can consistently use hold fire / attack ground to maximize the damage by manually aiming (targeting the middle of squads and predicting shots against moving targets). But for those who can't, the unit's performance is understandably weaker as the auto-fire isn't as effective.
Is the Brummbar's "skill-shot" power any different than the KV8-Flamer/Churchill croc's auto-fire, though? It seems to me that a unit that requires a ton of input should be a lot better than one that required little-to-none.
Stupa is kind of meant to counter paks...
At the same time ATGs are ment to counter armor.
I would balance it towards the stupa because its more niche unit than ATGs.
IMO, it's meant to counter anything "soft", similar to allied Flamer-Heavies (KV8/Croc) - it just requires skill to do so, rather than relying on Flamer's auto-attack and AoE/DOT.
Right now the main issue is that it's over-priced for what you're getting. We can either lower the price (down to 120f?) or increase the performance. My preference would be to increase the front armor a fair bit while keeping the price the same.
Like others have said, the shell needs to somehow ignore terrain (but not shot-blockers), or have a much higher arc (iirc the later is impossible to implement). Right now, the ST is THE WORST unit in the entire game by a significant margin, due to to most of its shots hitting the ground short of the target, or because it somehow does near-zero damage to a unit that's clearly within the AoE.
That, and let's just make the ST's reload a copy of the AVRE. It already has the disadvantage of not having a turret, making it incredibly obvious when firing; it doesn't need the 'insta-decrew' feature on top of having to manually press "reload" every time and suffering a large movement penalty during the reload.
quote by katitof,sander, Hannibal,lago and 1 other mods form this forum in the old stug thread
" a 5 range advantage is irrelevant and not enough"
this was me asking to rework stug to have less dps but 5 more range and that was the response
as always here we don't have double standards
so i u want just reduce the bonus of the is 2 to 45 at max
60 range for the STuG would be +10, though, not +5?
The range and vet-range changes would affect much more than the IS-2. Currently it starts at 40 range (vet 0), so it would actually gain +5 there, but would indeed lose out on its vet2 range bonuses. However, the Tigers (OST/OKW) would also lose out on their vet2 range bonuses.
I'm not sure what you mean by this, in relation to my post.
With the "no range bonuses" change, it means that no heavy tanks (except heavy TDs) would be able to exceed 45 range. The STuG currently (iirc) has 50 range, so it would always out-range the heavies by a slight amount - there would be no need for them to have even more range. Not to mention, 60 range STuGs would be incredibly powerful due to their cost efficiency and early arrival.
They're in a bit of a better place than before, but still need adjustments. I would make the following changes to all heavy and 'doc-premium-medium' tanks; i.e. Tiger, Ele, KT, JT, IS-2, KV-series, ISU-152, Pershing, Churchill-series, and Comet.
+1 or even +2 to command point requirement (where applicable)
Standardize all ranges to 45 at vet 0 (except Ele, JT, ISU-152)
Remove all range vet bonuses
Standardize all turreted tanks rear-armor to 140, case-mate TDs to 110
I'd also like to see larger changes made to the ST, AVRE and ISU-152. For the first two, their "shells" really need to either fire on a MUCH higher arc, or be set to ignore terrain (but not buildings). They're simply unusable in late-game, since they always hit craters and such, resulting in zero damage.
For the ISU-152, something really needs to be done to its ability to 'snipe' entire squads at extreme ranges. This is especially a problem for OST, since they lack any sort of non-doc ~60 range TD to even begin to counter it at range, as well as being based almost entirely around 4-man squads (which are very vulnerable to 1-shots). My suggestion would be either:
Drastically reduce AoE radius
OR set a "max models to damage" limit, which I believe mines use right now
OR give it an AP / HE toggle (similar to the USF Sherman), where AP has nearly zero AoE, and HE has drastically reduced range (around 50).
[...]OST T4 was a pretty hot discussion topic [...]There's a vivid Panzerwerfer discussion, Ranger vs Paratrooper, SOV field HQ...
[...]Also Relic does not allow drastic changes anymore, so most things will be stat changes, abilities and/or upgrades etc.
Yea, in general, just look for the large discussion topics (that actual have discussion/debate, not just "L2P OP"). I'd guess that, in order of probability, we'll get:
Heavy tank call-in re-balance
OST T4 buffs
Sov 7-man Cons nerfs
LV adjustments (probably T70 down, AEC/222 up)
Commander adjustments (OKW GO nerfs, especially)
UKF adjustments (no idea on specifics)
Minor +/- 10% tweaks to units
As for "Relic does not allow drastic changes anymore", that might be for the best. Long-term support for CoH2 isn't exactly guaranteed, so I don't think anyone wants the possibility on leaving the game on an unfinished "rework patch". That, and at least IMO, the "drastic change" patches (i.e. 5+ nerfs/buffs to individual units in one patch) have been very 'hit-or-miss', requiring several hot-fixes. I'd much rather they make minor, but heavily calculated and considered changes in the hopes of gradually fixing issues; that approach reduces the possibility of 'massively OP/UP' units from appearing.
Doomlord52
Relic Entertainment
cblanco ★ 
