Tellers deal 400 damage so they oneshot a T-70.
Tellers is the normal mine. You are thinking on Riegel mines which if IIRC do less damage than Tellers.
I had to test this to believe it, but you're both right. The Teller does 1-shot a T70, and the Riegel, which I was thinking of in my previous post, does slightly less damage (360-380?). I seem to have had the two confused for years. My assumption had always been that the doc-locked, LV-deployed, heavy anti-tank mine was more powerful.
The followup questions would then be:
Why does the tooltip call it the "Riegel-43 heavy anti-tank mine" if it does less damage, and why does it cost the same as the normal Teller?
/edit
This seems like a tool-tip issue. I can't find any description of the historical Riegel-43 being referred to as a "heavy" anti-tank mine, and it in fact weighs approximately the same as both the Tellermine 42, and only slightly more than the '43. The Riegel was also only about 75% as powerful as the Tellers.
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Tellers deal 400 damage so they oneshot a T-70.
While this is true, I generally don't consider doc-locked units/abilities as counters when discussing standard units. UKF's mortar situation, for example, isn't fixed by lend-lease.
I had confused the Teller with the Riegel in this post.
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Can I vote "sort of"?
The issue, imo, isn't that its over-performing; the problem is that OST has basically no 'good' counters, and OKW is forced into mech every game.
OST:
AT mine + follow-up AT (50 muni+)
Three Pak40 hits
PFaust + Schrecks (135 muni+)
Multiple 222s
These aren't necessarily even 'hard counters', but just enough to fend off the T70. Getting three Pak hits, for example, requires the Sov player to be pretty careless, and the infantry-only based solution is very sub-optimal (you're spending a ton of muni, AND giving up an AI squad).
OKW doesn't have such a bad time with it, as they can usually field a Puma around the same time as the T70, which essentially hard-counters it. A proper use of both a cloaked Rak and a fasut can also work well.
/edit
With that said, its vet 3 AI power is a bit much - if the Sov player gains even the slightest advantage, the T70 simply eats infantry (especially OST). Losing the "-20% scatter" bonus might fix that. |
I don't necessarily think its the tech cost that is the issue, its the cost/performance of the units in Tier 4 themselves
This. T4 is affordable, but what you get out of T4 isn't good enough for what you pay.
I (mostly) agree with these two comments. Access to T4 is fine, but the units in T4 are very, very situational:
T4 Tech - Needs a different focus
The issue wasn't the price of getting to T4, it was the units within. They're all incredibly situational and expensive (the units, not the tech). Reducing the T3 -> T4 cost by 15 fuel isn't going to make these units any better.
1. The panther is still really expensive; the STUG is more viable as a TD, due to its higher DPS and range than the panther. Additionally, if you do save up the 490mp/180f (iirc), you might as well save the extra 190mp/50f and get a Tiger, as that's a much stronger unit. There's also the whole "60 range TD" thing which makes going for a Panther a risky choice.
2. The brummbar is still going to impose a heavy micro-tax, and even then, it's only really good against blobbers. The P4 and Ostwind are simply better choices, since they're cheaper, arrive earlier, and don't require manually firing every shot. Also, axis doesn't need a "bunker buster", either. This update does increase its armor by 20, but I don't think that makes it a better choice (in most cases) than a P4 or Ostwind.
3. The P.Werfer is still going to be situational. It's good against static infantry and support weapons, but because the rockets always take a long time to hit, using it against moving infantry is tricky; you can't use it point-blank like a katyusha or caliope.
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Oh god no
No proper infantry unit should get extra men with vet, and that includes the new Brit officer unit which is abhorrent (as always with Brits).
Have to agree with this. Adding a model via vet is just a nightmare to balance; you're adding 20% more HP and DPS (in the case of 4->5 models) that also scales on other vet bonuses. There's also the issue of weapon slots.
If a unit (storms, in this case) needs more HP, or DPS, just give the unit RA/DR and DPS buffs. |
Way too complicated of an implementation, as SneakEye said; but the 'idea' is solid.
I pointed this out a while ago in my " Give USF an Intermediate AT" thread
Essentially, as you pointed out, the m36 currently needs to 'do everything', which is completely unreasonable; this is because without Vet, USF has trouble reliably penning anything tougher than a STuG.
It also creates the current situation, where simply rushing an M36 is the best choice in almost all cases. Instead, the M36 needs to become a dedicated "anti-heavy" tank, and some other unit needs to become a dedicated "anti-medium" tank; similar to OST's STuG/Panther, OKW's JP4/Panther, and Sov's SU76(and T34)/Su85 combo (or, how the Panther should be).
As for the stats, in no way should the M10 be buffed; its currently an incredibly strong medium TD, thanks to its abilities. If anything, it would almost certaintly need to be nerfed from its current state, if moved to a non-doc position. 'CreativeName' was correct in pointing this out a while ago, in this post; I too thought that the M10 would be fine if simply dropped in to the current tech structure. |
What a unique opportunity. gunfire! I didn’t think that axis fans would get to that. The kubel can be restored very quickly with the stormtroopers, and the riflemans will bleed again. You can’t catch the kubel. When I take a universal car, playing against OKW, they always use raketen. Why? After all, a universal car is also made of paper
Try not to think of it as "axis fans" or "allies fans"; most good players play all factions.
As for repairing the Kubel; that's how early game vehicles work. They're incredibly fragile, but repairing them is free. Same goes for the UC, M3, or any other vehicle that early in the game.
If OKW is fielding a rak that early, it means they're down a squad. USF is generally supposed to be on equal footing, or one squad ahead, of their opponents, so use your numbers advantage. The Rak also only does 160 damage, which means it can't 1-shot any early-game vehicles, since they all have 200hp or more. It only becomes a real issue once it hits vet 1, since it can then fire at point blank (from cloak), giving very little time to escape from other damage sources (i.e. volks/PFs/etc.).
Now I know what we can say to the ardent haters of Jackson. "U have gunfire, just use it and destroy because its made of paper".
Spot on. Those stinky axis haters. Kubel has much faster speed than rifles while a P4 drive about as fast as Jackson.
So its gunfire without the pace.
This is pretty much an argument in 'bad faith'. A rifle squad has a 33%/53% chance (front/rear) to pen at kubel at max range, and when considering the full squads rate of fire, it means they can destroy a kubel quite quickly (kubel has 240hp, each rifle hit does 8dmg, and there's 5 of them). Even though you're 'joking', the M36's 60 rear armor gives Grens a 1.667% chance to pen at point blank. They're not comparable in any sense. |
I didn't mean to say the ambulance was useless over all, actually it is a very useful unit later on but as a starting unit it is way too expensive to be of any use. It can't fight, has almost no armor or health, it's slow as hell, and healing isn't that important early on. So why the hell is a 250 MP 10 fuel unit like this even available at T0?
OST pays 150mp/60 muni for a static healing structure that can only heal 3 models at a time
OKW pays 100mp/15f for a static healing post upgrade that can only heal 3 models at a time
Sov pays 250mp for a static healing post upgrade that can only heal 3 models at a time
USF pays 250mp/10f for a mobile healing vehicle that can AoE heal a limitless number of units
I'll trade any of the other factions healing systems for an ambulance - its much, much better.
/edit
Yes, some factions have other sources of healing, but the ones above are their primary 'constant' healing sources. The other abilities (SPio med-crates, OST Vet 1 ability) require constant resources. Also UKF is in flux right now, with their new medic squad; so I'm ignoring them for now. |
> In the team tournament of the 2x2 Masters Cup, the USF was the worst. (alright, there was simply no luck)
> In the next 1x1 tournament, the USF shared the best result with the Soviets, with a difference of 1% (No, it's all Jackson's fault, it's OP)
No bias.
And the WC51 is doctrinal.(Apparently you forgot) And OKW has raketen to defend against it.
The 2x2 masters cup was before the " September 2019 Balance Update" as well as a few other patches (posts #161 and later); results from it can't be used to discuss the current state of the game.
In the 1x1 tournament, it also showed that Sov was overperforming. Note that the win rates for USF/Sov were 59%/58% compared to OKW/OST 48% and 37%. A win rate of 11% to 22% higher than the other (opposing) factions is a pretty clear indication of over-performance. The M36 is likely one cause of that over-performance, not the only cause. UKF is in an awful state (but needs a full redesign to fix it).
And no, I didn't forget the WC51 was doc-locked. I was pointing out that every light vehicle pushes (medium/heavy can crush). |
Dude, always complaining about the USF, in particular, hating Jackson, says:
https://youtu.be/1zPSA2t4MqE?t=336
Timecode
5:36 and 6:00
I point out things that are OP for all factions, like how "Panic Puma" shouldn't return to OST, how PF spam isn't being addressed in this patch, and even made a detailed thread about how USF needs an intermediate AT... but I guess pointing out that USF has the highest win-rate, and that it might be OP, makes me biased.
As for your video, at 5:36 it's a single rifle squad vs. a Kubel, an SPio, and Volks squad. The Rifle squad was losing either way. At 6:00 it's again a single rifle squad vs. all 3, with an RE squad joining in a bit later.
Neither of these engagements were decided by the Kubel showing up. They were lost because it was a 3v1, which is exactly how those situations should play out.
If you mean the kubel pushing squads around; every vehicle can do this. The M3, UC, WC51, etc. |
Doomlord52
Relic Entertainment
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