Profile of AvNY

Jump back to quoted post8 Jan 2016, 18:23 PMrobertmikael

Of course the British would not have capitulated, but it would not have been good for British morale if the Germans would have killed or captured the whole force in Dunkirk, instead the Brits got a morale boost from this, when they escaped from Dunkirk


Yes, I agree, but I think this was a great mistake made by Hitler and the other German military leaders. They should have sent a bigger force to Africa in the late summer of 1940, and driven the Brits out of North Africa.

Jump back to quoted post8 Jan 2016, 13:38 PMAvNY

The Germans executed Barbarossa essentially as they planned it. it probably could not have gone any better. But they failed not because of the timing of Barbarossa but because they didn't understand how resilient their enemy was going to be. The Soviet Union had 14 million men with military experience who didn't show up in rolls of their strength.

So many of these theories are ask about how much better the Germans could have done it. But you don't get to have perfection No one seems to theorycraft the allied side. Zhukov could have done a more focused counter attack in Dec. of '41 instead of the broader front approach he used, and it would probably have destroyed Army Group Center already in 1941. Had Stalin permitted retreats more units would have remained operational through the fall of 1941. There are lots of "what ifs" on the allied side as well.

Jump back to quoted post8 Jan 2016, 06:58 AMrobertmikael

I agree that the Operation Sealion could never have worked, because the German Navy and Air Force was weaker than the British counterpart. But my opinion is that the Germans make two mistakes against the Brits (the third point is a consequence of this):
(1) Dunkirk 1940. If the Germans would have eliminated the force here, this would also have a huge moral impact on the Brits and other allies.
(2) Africa 1940. The Germans should have concentrated their energy right after the battle of France in North Africa and drive the Brits out of Egypt and Middle East (instead of the invasion of Great Britain). This could have worked if they had done this when the Brits were unprepared and the Italians have not yet proven themselves to be the Italian army as we know it. Thus the Germans would probably not been involved in the Balkans and Greece, and Mussolini would concentrate his energy on Africa instead (and not make the mistake to be involved in the Balkans).
(3) Sovjet Union 1941. If the Germans were not been forced to clean up the mess in Balkans after Mussolini and the Italian army, then the Germans could have started the Operation Barbarossa earlier, in the middle of May, that is 5-6 weeks earlier, and so have a little more time to advance in Sovjet Union before the famous winter of 1941-2. It was a mistake to lauch the attack as late as June 22.

Jump back to quoted post7 Jan 2016, 16:50 PMIGOR

if they played OKW !

Jump back to quoted post7 Jan 2016, 16:40 PMAvNY

Maybe. But I think that those "moving variables" have a tendency to move against Hitler more than for him. He had the jump on the world in terms of aggression and doctrine. But in every case the world was adapting to that new environment and perhaps at a faster rate than the Germans.

The Russians were already moving towards total war footing as where the Americans. Hitler on the other hand had a nation to appease. The Germans were supportive and exuberant because he was a WINNER. Don't forget that while the Russians, the Brits and the Americans were industrializing a workforce and mobilizing their women into it as well, working 3 shifts sometimes 7 days a week, the Germans were expecting that this was their time to indulge in the riches lifted from the conquered countries. people were starting to move to plantations in the east that would be worked by slavic minions.

By contrast the British in 1940 were already outproducing German aircraft. They even had an aircraft that was specifically designed to be made by a now underutilized and large industry of smaller furniture factories. This sounds whacky, like the iceberg aircraft carrier designs and the potato throwing naval anti-air weapons (true things, look them up), but in fact it created one of the fastest and most versatile planes of the war, the DeHavilland Mosquito (8,000 built. In furniture shops.)

The Germans wouldn't go on total war footing until 1943.

Jump back to quoted post7 Jan 2016, 16:19 PMrobertmikael

This is actually a valid point. If Hitler and the Nazis would not have been antisemitic, then they would have the German Jewish scientists developing new technology and weapons for them. Now the Allies had better German scientist working for them than the Nazis had.