Yep, i think this would be fair.
Do HMGs in particular need to be nerfed in this way? Team weapons in general become quite weak in the lategame, given regular troops' vastly improved damage output by that stage.
AT guns i sort of understand, they're not intended to fight infantry, and are supposed to be heavily screened... but HMGs seem quite the opposite. |
Server side, yes, not client. Lapsus calami. Fireworks out of control? This whole game is pretty much not in your control. You don't direct the bullets and unit accuracy. You don't dictate which will penetrate. Only thing you do is increase the chances. Nothing else. This whole game is "position yourself to give yourself the best chance".
COH3 in e-sports mode would most definitely increase the cheats. The more popular the game, the larger number of hack software. If people decide to cheat while playing the tournament, live, in front of thousands of people and admins looking over their shoulder (CS GO)...
Except for the lapsus, which blatantly false statements am I claiming?
That these suggested changes are in any way "watering the game down", or that balance is "Cookie cuttering" in any way, and that an Asymmetrical game "must" have these sorts of absurd examples of RNG to become a viable "E-sport". On top of this being some strange idea that the game improving will necessarily come with an inundation of cheating.
You're constantly fearmongering to defend the idea of absurdly impactful RNG such as MGC for some reason. Refer to Whiteflash's article. I'm not bothering to argue with you regarding the merits of accuracy and penetration. |
uhh... no thats not how the math works... 20% DR = 20% RA vs small arms fire...
uhh the brummbar had a rework not a nerf during 2018... check the patchnotes
Brummbar
The Brummbar is having its AOE adjusted to reduce its ability to wipe out full health units on the first shot, but still able to deal significant damage on misses.
• AOE distance changed from 1.25/2.5/3.75 to 0.625/1.25/6; applies to both auto-attack and bunker-buster
• AOE damage changed from 1/0.3/0.05 to 1/0.35/0.2; applies to both auto-attack and bunker-buster
meanwhile the brummbar got a buff during the 2020 patch
Brummbar
Due to its cost, lower than usual range, and casemate design, the Brummbar is having its armor nerf partially reverted to allow the unit to engage fortified positions.
Armour from 240 to 260
VSL and ostruppen are the current meta... what are you on??
thats on you then.. i see 3 min pgren plays pretty often...
Grenadiers had -23% RA at veterancy three before the change to DR, not 20%. Even with your maths here, 23% != 20%. |
I also dont like it if e sports becomes the focus, it will mean watering down things. Coh as a whole has to much rng to have it be viable in a esport setting.
Shots missing or bouncing are not done in e sports, they would loose their minds, clicks per minute and 100% outcomes of intended actions is mostly the way to go. Hell i bet even retreat is not right for esports.
Now that you mention it i havent noticed or heard about any cheat in this pc game, a pc game without cheaters is rare nowadays.
Keeping the game alive is just fine by me, and i am very gratefull for it.
There is literally no reason that Retreat mechanics would be "Not right for Esports".
Cheats are known to exist for CoH2 already. I've heard of cheats to allow vision in the Fog of war, there's no special immunity this game has to cheat development. |
you mean summer?
Nah, he means spring.
Of 2022. |
To add up then. An asymmetrical game like COH will never reach e-sport status by watering everything down and cookie cutting the balance. Ignorance or not, I'm absolutely appalled, and cringe at the thought of e-sport mentioning, to have one of my favorite games being played for money by no-lifers would be a sad day indeed. Not to mention the cheats that would sooner or later be introduced, unless everything was client-side in COH3.
Great that the game is being kept alive, but to water down things for the sake of e-sports ready badge would be sad.
"Watering everything down and cookie cutting the balance."
Removing MGC and other garbage is not "Watering down" the game, these things are improvements that make the game better in every scenario for people who actually want to play a game, rather than watch fireworks out of their control.
I'm failing to see why any of this would result in "cheats" suddenly appearing in CoH3, incidentally. You're fearmongering for absolutely no reason, it's absurd.
You also mean "Server-side", not "Client-side". Having the client be authoritative is how you invite cheating, please stop making blatantly false statements constantly. |
Specifically COH2 with its current direction and rate of change wont be a big esport, not beyond the efforts of AE, the refs, smaller cash games etc and SEGA/Relic fronting big tournies, which are comendable and impressive given how old this game is.
But the fundamental mechanisms inside the COH franchise are begging for a new COH game to rival and even exceed other RTS legends like Starcraft. Its entirely possible if done right.
Its in Relics hands
I'm in full agreement with Whiteflash here. CoH2 would be FAR more successful if some of the very rough edges were sanded down. This isnt going to hurt the game's "Flavour". |
Crits should definitely stay in the game. Competitive or not. It's not like COH2 has a major player base. Well, taking into account the age of the game, it's doing fairly well, but still... crits introduce that element of surprise. Same with plane crash. Did I have, in teamgames, wiped 2-4 squads that happened to clump up in base during a big retreat because of some flank? And then my own AA took down a plane that landed on them? Yes. Was I pissed? Yes. Does it make the game more fun and unpredictable, easily shifting the tide? Yes, ten times yes.
Crits should definitely stay because in the end one could always argue that the whole COH2 is one big statistical problem. Everything is either chance to hit or penetrate. I'll give an example with the plane crash analogy. Ettelbruck station 3v3: Couple of LEFHs shelling my base (I only play random so no offmap on our side). They all shelled in front of my USF base. I pulled all of my troops behind so that they avoid the shells (ambo + retreated units). One shell, only one, had some huge scatter and landed right on top, plenty of units away from where the other shells landed. Only one landed there that took out 3 squads + ambo. That's also in a way a critical hit. Don't know why "pros" complain about those, they def.make the game more fun, because in the end, the "luck" factor will be evened out. You might get a main gun crit and get effed but at some point your UKF AT gun will at some point penetrate twice in a row a KT (or not penetrate 6 times in a row on the last tightrope cast). It evens out in the end and only extremely rare cases will be "luck on only one side".
And whilst pak howi nerf might be good for the 1v1 side, USF will get butchered in teamgames as the paks will no longer instill fear into static units. Pak needs an accuracy nerf, not a lethality one. Otherwise why not go double mortar (cheaper) and use that. Pak already needs a lot of XP to vet up. That combined with the scott nerf is strange.
You really don't need to have random chances to obliterate units with downed planes, or your tanks becoming AI pillboxes because of RNG for the game to be fun and exciting. The random parts of the game are not the main "fun" factor.
Pro players (And many "casual" players) complain about these sorts of unpredictable bits of RNG because they have nothing to do with skill, and many people prefer to have their own skill/tactical choices swing games, rather than because a plane randomly decided to make your vet5 obers a landing strip. |
V3 General Changes
I'd still have preferred MGC to have been removed entirely, but reducing the chance is... a step in the right direction. |
We looked into giving Raketen reverse, but it seems to be impossible to give it both reverse and retreat. Though we will look into whether or not it's possible to extend the range at which a move order behind the unit has it move backwards. Right now it's only 15-20 range I believe, any further away makes it turn around. I'd hope to extend this to 40-50 range.
Is it possible to force it to move forwards before turning when asked to retreat? If it didn't pivot on the spot before wheeling itself away that might help alleviate some of the issues people have with the Rak's retreat. |
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