Idea for relief infantry rework:
Instead of forcing you to get your units killed, make it so they can recuperate from any losses that occur.
Releases 2 4-man relief squads that can merge but cannot reinforce or capture points. Also have VERY crap DPS.
have the relief infantry squads retreat off the map at the abilitie’s end
This would add more skill to the ability, instead of throwing your units foreward to die you have to position the relief squads correctly& time your Assault well
While the rework for merge-units sounds interesting, I don't think that your idea will translate well into the game.
Apart from that: This thread is patchnote discussion, if you want to suggest and discuss a different change, please open a new thread or reuse a recent one. Otherwise it's getting confusing in here  |
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Nice to see that Balance Team included my Target Weak Point suggestion, so now I contributed a tiny bit to the game #feelsgoodman
Apart from that, many good changes. Not so sure about some of the others like the 251 though, but time will tell and I appreciate the effort to make the unit more interesting |
sturm don't have sand bag cause they are over burned with roles, i tried to address this with a rework hopefully the mod team does something similar
Can't quite remember the arguments of that thread anymore.
I use Sturmpios early game as a pure assault squad and to drop a med crate if I go Mechanized, and then they transition into a repair squad.
If you run forwards with a sweeper and deactivate when your in the enemy lines for more close range DPS, they can do minesweeping and fighting at the same time with a bit micro.
They're also mine layers.
That's like completely normal? OST Pioniere do the same stuff, but they're OSTs only source of sandbags. They also double as recon due to sight range. Royal Engineers are close range fighters, sweepers, mine layers and repair squad at the same time as well. They can't build sand bags but are the only snare that UKF has. Also they're the only possibility to build emplacements that UKF is/was build around.
I do understand that due to the price, OKW often has only one Sturmpionier, while other factions have two. That's why OKW get's a non-doc repair upgrade on Mechanized.
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1 cons did not have the same problem, they could not win at long range that's it 2 RE tanks trap give green cover
1. The Conscript example was obviously to make the point how a matchup can be balanced even if one squad has to close in.
2. You're right here, I forgot the tank trap. But that makes them still way less prevalent ingame, especially since the tank traps often don't fit to an object blocker, so you need to additionally barb wire them that your opponent can't use them against you. |
So volks equalling long range vs riflemen but weaker in mid and close range, makes it hard for riflemen???, man im really scratching my head with that one how the hell is the harder for riflemen
Yes volks have sand bags, you people seem to think volks stay stationary the whole game or something? volks are not always sitting behind green cover, especially in early when OKW has to go aggressive. Volks sitting behind green cover vs riflemen closing from long range is ofc an ideal engagement for volks which they have to win, if they couldn't even win that they would lose every encounter with riflemen
The problem is that the range at which the DPS curves diverge is too close. So if you encounter an enemy Volksgrenadier in some cover, you cannot fight on long range since Volks will be more cost efficient. So you need to close in which is very risky since loosing a model while closing in will likely mean the loss of the complete fight.
The early Gren/Con-balance had a similar thing - Cons had to close in. But Cons are dirt cheap to reinforce, and they could take a model loss and still trade efficiently on close range. Also they cost the same, so no one got a real map presence advantage. These were the most interesting matchups in the game.
But Riflemen are not cheap to reinforce, Volks have an extremly potent Sturmpioneer at their side to help in early game and until USF getsthe officer out, they lack behind in map presence.
I really don't get your second point. It makes no sense. You can spam sandbags while capping a point from early to late game. So your infantry is always close to green cover. USF has literally no non-doc options to create green cover. Of course open field encounters happen, still most fights and especially the important ones are fought from cover. Taking away sandbags from Volks would go a long way to bring them back to normal cost efficiency. |
but volks are equal at long range , okw start with -15 fuel and more expensive tech
Btw IS beats both green and volks when not in cover (at least when I tested them)
Btw they are cutting okw mp so no more 4 volks
And finally , inf fight don’t happen at 35 range , it’s very rare, generally the squad moving in will need to find equal cover and u will never find it at max range
Volks have sand bag for the same reason they have flame nade, strum have too many roles ( in my post history I made a thread trying to address this, by specializing them)
Yes, Volks are equal long range. That's what I said, and that's what makes it hard for Riflemen as I explained in an earlier post and quickly covered in the one you're quoting.
I also said that IS need a nerf.
Let's see what balance team will patch into the live game and how this will effect Volks performance and spammability.
And yes, engagements are not usually at exactly 35 range, but Rifle only gain a significant advantage in DPS below ~15 range. So if you need to cross 20 meters against Volks in cover (often sandbags), you're going to lose 1-2 models and a lot of health while probably killing none, which is going to lose you the fight. |
If only they beat volks at all ranges and had a tier 0 mortar to support them 
As I said multiple times, the problem is that Riflemen need to close in against Volks for quite a distance to get their advantage and will thereby lose their DPS advantage by model loss. They don't win at all ranges, at long range it's RNG, especially when you consider that Volks can create their own green cover while Riflemen can't. Suggesting otherwise is borderline lying. The problem is also that early Sturmpioneers will chase your Riflemen off the map, and that the StG comes for no further fuel cost, so you need to delay more infantry and your tank for side tech to keep up.
OKW spams Volksgrenadiere while your Riflemen are expensive and you lose the early capping game while being pressured into often bad fights.
A normal OKW build is 4 Volks, a normal USF build is 3 Rifles into officer, as a fourth Rifle plus officer will often bleed you hard. You get the officer unit for "free" by teching compared to OKW, but it takes very long to build so you have less map presence during that time. And a big chunk of the MP advantage that you gain by the "free" officer is basically invested into the ambulance.
Volks are also performing exceptionally well against Conscripts, Penals (due to sandbags) and Tommies (when unbuffed). They also get stuff that Riflemen would need to side tech for (weapon upgrade, grenade) or Riflemen need to vet up first (snare). They're incredible units with next to no downside.
Tone them down a bit. |
Prior to the latest nerf, the DSHK was built a ton. It was the main reason land lease was picked so much even after the 76mm shermans were locked behind tech.
Part of that was the fact the maxim was/is underperforming and part of it was how ridiculous the DSHK was despite it's even worse arc.
[...]
-on a serious note it's more situation dependent mg42 is only better if its camping a spot covering as many points of entry as possible. Since my multitasking and unit management are crap that can be useful to me but less so in the hands of someone more capable.
I just wanted to make the point that looking at suppression stats alone is no good choice. Please correct me if I'm wrong, I was just picking CoH2 up again when lend lease was a thing: In my memory lend lease died after tying the sherman to tech, since the main reason to get it was that you could skip T4.
The MG42 is one of the main reasons why Axis dominate open fields from early to mid game: Good vision, hard to be flanked and one unit can cover a big chunk of the map. As I said, the 50 cal has it's merits, but it cannot provide the stability that a MG42 gives you |
i asked if he smoked or was drunk, cause he was writing thing that were not here in the thread, is it an insult now ?
Yes, in this context it absolutely is and you know that.
I'm not gonna reply to the other stuff to not further derail the topic away from Rifles and Volks. We can discuss in PM or find another suitable thread/open up a new one because there seems to be broader interest.
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No?
At maximum range (35), the Rifle's Garand has ~1.7dps, the M1919 has 8.76dps
4 x 1.7 + 8.76 = 15.56dps at 35 range
At maximum range (35), the Gren's K98k has ~2.26dps, the LGM42 has 8.93dps
3 x 2.26 + 8.93 = 15.71dps at 35 range
Riflemen have 5x 80hp, or a 400hp effective pool
Grens have 4x 80hp, or a 320hp effective pool
400hp/15.71dps = 25.4sec
320/15.56dps = 20.6sec
Rifles at max range w/ M1919 are 19% stronger than Grens w/ LMG42.
This doesn't take into account that for each model lost, grens lose 33% of their K98k damage, vs. 25% for Rifle's Garand. Also note that this becomes more in favor of Rifles the closer you get: The LMG42 stays around 0.2-0.3dps ahead at all ranges, but the 4x Garands fill in that DPS difference at range 25. On top of that, Rifle's have far, far better vet bonuses.
Honest question:
Are these corrected for RA? I thought that vet0 Grens had a bit less than 1.
Not that it completely changes the outcome, but that's an easy correction to do. |
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