And that is part of the point of ostheer, the being under pressure in infatry and light vehicle phase and they are supposed to be able to push in the medium tank phase. If their PzIV is zoned form range 60 by a M36 they need to become stronger in the infatry and light vehicles phase...
And the claim that USF can deal reliably to PzIV see a slight exaggeration...
Well I would not call a pen chance of ~60% (bazooka) or 76% (ATG range 40 , unless you constantly invest mun) against an OST P4 very reliable. Yes, the ATG somewhat makes up with higher ROF, but this combination makes these fights either hit or miss for both sides. Against OKW it's about 15% worse.
I know the design of OST. I think they can be designed without a classic light vehicle, since their very lights are actually pretty cost efficient. But that's not the point of this thread here, so let's rather discuss this somewhere else.
While this poll is interesting, we cannot disregard the general faction that each TD has to work in. Of course the Jackson is too good for it's price, but that's because everything else in USF loadout does not reliably deal even with a P4.
Apart from this, I think the SU85 has the best design. Strong at it's job, weak vs infantry. Clear weakness by being a casemate. Excellent vet0 ability with a clear trade off.
Zhe firefly is okayish.too costly for the price, but UKF has a very good ATG as support. It offers utility instead of an ability, slight tweaks on the DPS vs alpha damage side. Overall I'd say it has a good idea with an acceptable implementation.
Jackson, well, we've had that before.
PF take up a commander slot and contrary to the majority of other doctrinal units they block the production pipe.
PF cost 270 Manpower to built and when built are less cost efficient than the majority of other mainline infatry of their time frame like conscripts/Riflemen/Grenadier/VG.
Once one has invested at least 270/40 one can upgrade PF with 2 shreck for 100 mu. The unit is not has proven to be rather weak and not more cost efficient than bazooka RE or Piat Ro.E.
They can also upgrade for with 3 g43 while they need to reinforce bringing their total cost to 295/80.
Now if one compares their combat stat to that of Penal (the closest equivalent) one would see that they are not that mach better than penal although they become available later and cost 80 munition more. (They can actually lose long range in cover vs Penal)
According to their design they are supposed to start weaker and become better in mid game.
On the other hand if one compares them in vet 0 and vet 3 with Penal one will see that Penal actually get better combat stats.
So the only thing left is their "utility" which compared to VGs the both get snares both get grenades and PF have vet 1 flares while VG get sandbags.
Now I do not see how that justifies the 80 cost on their G43s or why they have to build-able and not call in.
For me that translates to following:
Either Penal or PF are badly designed
Either Penal need to also start weaker and have weapon upgrade or Pf need to start stronger
Either Penal are OP or PF are UP since G43 PF take up a commander slot, come later, cost more and do not scale better
Shreck PF are not cost efficient
In sort:
PF need no nerfs, especially losing a g43 as suggested. They could actually get some buff to their K98 and some nerf to their G43 and lowering the price of the upgrade.(or a redesign becoming cheaper as supplement to support VG while bringing utility)
Penals are a mess and need to be looked at.
One thing though that you should not forget for Penals: They are overly strong because they do not get support by any basic support weapons, so the main line has to carry everything. Panzerfüsiliere get support by an MG and Raketen after a couple of minutes.
I might be wrong on this: but does the G43 not also give increased sight to ~42 or something like that?
I also would not say that Penals vet that much better than Panzerfüsiliere, although I have not tested it yet. Penals get more accuracy, but less RA. Hard to factor in their Last Man ability though, probably makes them a bit better. Tests should tell. Did you already make some, I have to wait until tomorrow? The rest is cheaper satchels vs flare, sprint and faster decap. A snare that is usually more versatile.
I'm not saying that everything is perfect regarding Panzerfüsiliere, Volks and Penals, but all in all they are in a good state if you factor in their respective faction.
What about an indirect buff?
The problem is not necessarily their DPS, but that Grens bleed a lot trying to close in They're supposed to be in cover while fighting off the enemies.
So what if we just lower their reinforcement cost to 28 after G43 upgrade?
Can all the people debating about semantics and throwing in mostly random Con/Penal comparisons now please COMPLETELY cut it and go back to the actual thread topic.
And since this thread has not had too much substance so far: please at least try tp back up your claims with some data or at least a well thought out argumenz instead of 'nO TheY guD' and 'No ThEy bAd'
BTW anyone know if the in game mod for veteracy is updated ?
I think you found it already, but for everyone with the same question:
Strahfniki currently keeps it tidy and updated and has put a lot of effort into it. The mod can be found in the mod sectionhere on .org and exchanges the vague ingame text for veterancy to the hard numbers that we can also find in the guide.
Many people reported connection issues in the last days, the servers appear to br screwed in some way. Probably related to this issue, but then again I'm not a tech guy
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