I'm glad that the Relic still has some kind of control in the game and has not abandoned everything. Because if you give full control over the game, it's like putting the game in the hands of Hannibal Lector. Slowly but surely the mechanics of the game will be cut off from the game.
If people are so worried about e-sports, make them a Tournament mode where they will play a castrated game.
at most, keep all the mechanics in automatches, and let the custom games have all that castrated options.
the problem with 'tournment' mode, you open can of worms how much resources will be put where.
like you see automatches already removed ice and snow today. if relic knew earlier, do you think they will even bother to create that mechanics?
the variables in coh2 is way more than sc2. creating and later 'balancing' sc2 is piece of cake.
correct me if i wrong, but abandon happens when your hp is very low.
imo we should get the maths and alogrithm right so that abandon can happen to any players, any units, any place, any map, any time, in a match. so that players wont feel 'hard' done by it.
back to an earlier mention that some 'pro' player drop coh2 because he found the mechanics not esport ready.
to be honest, i agree with him. coh2 lacks the viewership, the fame, the hype, the sponsorship and the money that is needed.
in an alternate earth, sega organises annual league of 2v2 coh2, with the top team winning $1m, and 2nd 3rd 4th get good rewards, but we keep all the meme and rng mechanics that is coh2.
you may fight and practice but you may also leave empty handed if a plane crash on your head randomly.
i wonder if 'pro' players will still think it is esport not ready? or just make the best and adapt to a different expectation of a 'competitive' rts?
ironically, i believe most coh2 vet will agree that castings of coh2 is more exciting and potentially more viewership dollars than your sc or dota, no?
if the viewers want it, can the 'pro' not work towards that?
It, along with a whole host of game mechanics promotes careful play. You are always generally supposed to mutually support your units, not over extending, abandon is just one more thing that *can* punish taking too big a risk.
Diving a tank way too deep is always a really bad idea for the unit preservation of that unit, you can calculate it's worth it if you are prepared to lose the unit, but there are just so many things that can go wrong.
Generally you should have supporting units and be prepared to at the very least kill an abandoned unit with attack ground or some indirect fire.
If you are talking about a single tank pursuing all the way into base with no support, either you are already winning, in which case it's an unnecessary risk to take and you are being punished for being greedy, or you are behind and you took the risk in order to try get back into the game and it backfired, sealing your fate. Neither option you should complain too much about.
The entire concept of RNG in coh, isn't to make the game unfair, or annoying to play. It's to create dynamic situations in which you can never predict the outcome (like real war huh). This makes it more exciting and means good players will react to RNG as it happens.
perfectly well said.
we should aim for more than just black or white, we need more layers, 50 shades of grey, the excitement and leaking that comes with it. watch the ealier tightrope video, he got so excited the su85 got abandoned, and the axis player quickly drop the bomb to destroy it. priceless
to be fair, if it is found in the game code that some programmer cheekily made abandoned at base a higher %, we should change it to give a fair chance anyway on the map.
It is unreasonable to say that Abandon in it's current form doesn't add interesting flavor, drama and excitement, but it is also unreasonable to say that it doesn't create really unfair and frustrating moments that the game suffers from. Both these can be true at the same time. I feel like this casual vs competitive angle is a typical case of false dichotomy, because good game design is, instead of tacked on features, is about setting up something that is fun and enjoyed by most players. It would be probably be possible to redesign a really interesting version of Abandon in the mod tools that's exciting and also fair but that's beyond the scope of a community balance team in lieu of an actual Relic designer.
Abandon feels like a mechanic that was originally designed with some interesting interactions in mind (like using flamers to melt a tank crew) but then for whatever budgetary or technical reasons it was scrapped and instead just tacked on as some weird gimmick feature. As far as a small but simple rework without changing too much, it would probably be possible with the modding tools to prevent Abandon from happening in base sectors. It's pretty contrived but would fix the most obnoxious element of Abandoned (Giving your opponent a tank even though you didn't actually make a mistake because you base dived and took out a tiger and made a great play that you would not hesitate to repeat in spite of the ~5% abandon chance.) If a Tank gets abandoned on the middle of the map somewhere, most of the time it doesn't have much more of an impact than if the shot just bounced/missed and fails to kill the tank.
For what it's worth, it seems a pretty reasonable estimation to me that the majority of players in Coh2 play exclusively 4v4 or comp stomping, and enjoy abandon. Even if the vocal minority of competitive players who dominate this forum oppose it for its clear frustration and fairness problems.
stop being elitist with the 4v4 comp stomp thing. i play 2v2 1000 rank randoms, and welcome mechanics like abandon, the more the merrier. and half part of the forums have the same preference as me.
stop trying to make luck more complicated than needed.
a simple look around, how many 'competitive' rts boast meme like coh2 has? how many dont? should coh franchise conform with 'normals' or continue to explore and expand on ideas and creativity.
of course relic will happily abandon abandon in coh3, makes their lives easier. but my fellow meme-ists, we shouldnt give them money if they do that! hodl!
OP probably felt frustrated losing a ranked game due to abandon recently
imo, no need to be chasing the ladder, enjoy a game and the many idiosyncrasy that comes with it.
think of happier times when you won through rng luck. no need to feel dirty you lucked out instead of pure 'skills'. luck is part and parcel of life and very much in real world sports.
and what i said about tightrope 2v2 coh2 cast >>>>> esports. see the above.
Except it disincentivises playing aggressively with your tanks, because there's the potential for both your diving vehicle to be abandoned behind enemy lines or even for the vehicle you're diving to be abandoned.
Imagine diving your enemy's Katyusha with your Puma, and killing it as it rolls into their base while you lose your Puma in the process. Now imagine the same scenario when the Katyusha is merely abandoned instead of killed. There was no way for you to influence that, you have simply been fucked randomly by RNG, as your opponent can recrew and repair the Katyusha with exactly 0 risk. Imagine if the Puma is abandoned, too. Dives are already adequately punished by losing a vehicle, they don't need an extra RNG risk of the opponent's vehicle magically not dying, or handing your own vehicle to them.
It rewards passive play, and punishes active play.
aggressive and passive plays are 2 sides of the coin.
neither is supposed to mean better over another.
like football, some teams press aggressively, some prefer digging in to snatch a win.
you know you can play aggressive even with abandon? the chance is already small to happen, the chance to destroy abandon tanks very high.
to always reward aggressive plays and penalise defensive plays, is sterile, makes no sense.
you know i prefer to watch tightrope random 2v2 casts than any esports matches. while 2v2 coh2 has a familiarity meta and build order, but every games have different possibilities and unmatched continual viewing.
if only coh2 managed to gain mainstream, i believe casuals would prefer watching a coh2 game than esports click adick.
when you build a game to play to win for money, shit get sterile fast.
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