I would like to see a nerf to the soviet clown car . It just comes out way too early.
The only option for a wehr player is to go grenadiers for snare literally no other tactic is possible as you will take heavy loses trying to rush out tier 2 or go a panzer gren build with no grens.
Did you know 15 fuel clown car is more fragile than a 5 fuel IR HT?
Also as OST you get what you make. You risk your men by skipping t1. I think it should be like this and nothing else. |
I can't reply for some reason but looks like the OP needs to play from soviets some more.
How can penals scale into late game when they have no grenades?
Conscripts have no grenades.
And if you 7 man upgrade they also lose a weapon slot. i.e the one and only weapon slot they have. All other infantry can equip with 2 slots. Volks get stgs. They increase their dp no?
And why do you say they are not meant for overperforming volks and grens? In reality they don't. As this game progresses in life certain roles of units change.
I could argue so many broken things in axis like IR HT but i won't. |
I don't understand why the soviet player shouldn't be rewarded for keeping his conscripts alive till the late game especially when they drop like flies.
They require 10 fuel and mp for molotov
10 fuel and mp for at nade.
And then 50 ammo more for the 7 man upgrade. Why they shouldn't perform like they performing? After all this investment in a squad i see no reason why they shouldn't be able to hold their own. OST get free tech unlocks as they proceed. Okw get the same treatment. Volks can even salvage stuff. My point being this thread looks like a Christmas soviet nerf list which i hope balance team pays no heed. |
We also need to realize the tank destroyers meta is here because soviet union has no handheld AT option. Ptrs doesn't do anything. At satchel requires 45 ammo for every satchel. Compared with other factors who can get shreks and bazookas and piats. I think this is the reason TDs are so needed for SU.
I think t70 is fine as it is. Now OST can make pz grens earlier and can place teller mines.
Okw can go for puma. T70 can not fight puma with its insane range and mobility. Even t34 becomes cautious in front of puma. We saw great puma play in the tournament because it kites so well. So i think t70 is fine. Nerfing it will hamper SU more in mid game. |
Hmm...stealth squad with faust that could cripple your engine don't make "huge issues" while ability that could be turn off by tactic smoke or decreased by blitzkrieg do it.
If it so - make from them stupid copy of falls. They didn't make huge issues for your vehicles. ABG could be deployed in any point of map with 2 "tweaked" dp-28 + another 2 you can buy for 60 muni when t4 will be deployed. Abilities the same as for falls. No Papa Faterland and reinforcements from stuka raid, by at least better than current.
Lol spot on. Stealth fausts are not problematic but button guards are. Use smoke and reverse |
I agree unit should be reworked. And no we are not asking for buffs. Just viability and synergy with the commander. |
45 muni that beats pretty much every other mainline once you hit vet 3, (dont have the picture one me right now since im out so you'll have to trust me here) but they beat volks at all ranges even if they're vet 5. its already bad enough to face out of cover but once theyre in cover your pretty much screwed tradewise.
heres how it goes most of the time.
>cons green cover
>volk approach
>drop 2-3 models while getting one usually ~maybe two
>retreat
>volks green cover
>cons oorah in maybe 1-2 models drop
>start trading volks
>win usually (if barely in some cases)
it also comes earlier, is cheaper and is on a six man squad. it's fucking ridicolous though not as bad as 7 men.
I will test it and report back here. Charging a stg squad is suicide though. |
No. Svt cons need to be nerfed from broken to actually balanced.
How are they broken when volks can get stgs? Also svt cons don't get 7 man upgrade. The same svt are on penals. Conscripts are just cheaper to make and need muni to equip 4 svts. If we compare the reinforce costs they end up same. |
No one ask about straight buffs, just make so high cost unit workable. Unit have 2 different upgrades, free ppsh don't give you anything. Tell me in which state 3 CP 380MP unit with ppsh better than 2 CP 360 MP shocks - shocks cheaper, have armor and the same grenades? In which terms they better than guards with dp-28? Guards have button and firing position and could fight against light vehicle (and upgrade cost less). What have ABG? Useless il-2 strafe and 3-rd dp-28...What show their elite status? High cost? Why all other elite infantry in game have cool and workable abilities while ABG don't? Shared cooldown on grenades for ABG - stupidiest thing.
Just compare ABG with other elite infantry:
1. Obers - stocks, good scale, have WP nade and bundle nade, could palnt booby trap on points, in doctrine have access do IR STG and valley nades(IRC, maybe i'm wrong).
2. Falls - could set in ANY point of map, stealth, first strike bonus, faust, have WP nade and bundle nade, have synergy with Papa Faterland and ability of stuka raid.
3. Commandos - cheaper significant (320, but 3 men and already equiped) or cost little more (390 MP 5 man squad fully equiped with glaider, but glaider give you ability to set them in ANY point of map and also give you reinforcements); stealth, bundle nade, first strike bonus, smoke grenade. Could carry boosted brens.
4. USF paras - could be set in ANY point of map, could get reinforcements from radio net. You could take any team weapons and reinforce it by radio net. With thompsons - close range monsters, due tactical advance. Have very long range of grenades, could have boosted versions of zooks. With 2 lmg have suppresion fire. Good synergy with commander ability.
In fact, now ABG are just:
1. With ppsh castrated version of shocks
2. With dp-28 castrated version of obers
While for both roles you ALWAYS have better variants - want soviet ober? Build guards and they will be have much more synergy with their commanders abilities and your army as well. Want close-combat? Shocks or penals with ppsh or even cons with ppsh.
Unit just need abilities REWORK or completely remove it and replace in doctrine by something useful ability.
With PPSH upgrade
1. Replace smoke nade on phosphorus (vet 1 ability). Remove share cooldown on grenades.
2. Replace Il-2 strafe to Il-2 smoke barrage, like OKW have.
3. Replace suppressive fire by tactic advantage or valley fire (like RE have) or "Suppressing Fire" (like paras with lmg have).
With DP-28 upgrade
1. Add button ability like guards have.
2. Replace Il-2 strafe to Il-2 smoke barrage, like OKW have.
Spot on. Couldn't have explained like you did. This will help others realize how much handicapped air guards are. |
Plenty of times, problem isnt the ability but the fact that having svt cons is just plainly more effecient so there's no point in getting the guards in the first place when you can spend much less mp and 45 muni for a better squad.
Exactly. That's why the unit needs some kind of changes to make it viable. |