I've got better idea - let the 7 man con nerfs land first, wait and then re-evaluate if any kind of changes are needed.
I mean yeah, I said it’s something to talk about for next patch Kappa |
Hello,
As everyone knows, since the 7man conscripts and airbourne commander introduction the meta has shifted heavily towards Conscript and T2 builds, which has dramatically reduced the role of the Soviet T1 structure and its units as an alternative to a T2 build. This has led to the unfortunate situation where 3 core soviet units are being underutilized because of their cost, role and T1 cost. This is why I would like to suggest a change to the T1 structure, from an alternative to the T2 I think it would be best utilized as a form of a Soviet early Ost T4 structure. What I mean by that is that Conscripts should remain the core unit of the Soviet army and the T1 units should be designed around that. Let's get into more specifics.
First of all, T1 should have its fuel cost removed and instead carry a 150mp cost. T3 should not unlock with T1 built, only if T2 is built. T2 should be built normally as is now. T1 will thus be a completely optional tier that can be built at any point during the match. Now let's look at the units.
M3A1 Scout Car, a frustrating unit for some OKW players but one that definitely has a role as a counter to faust-less and support weapon heavy builds. The unit in itself is fine but there is no reason to build one in the mid/late game. I think this unit would be better served if its cost was increased to 200mp 25 fuel and in return it received some abilities to help perform its role as a scout vehicle. A good change would be the addition of camouflage at vet 1, which would allow the vehicle if not garrisoned with a squad to become camouflaged and slowly move. This would allow it to act as a spotter in all stages of the game. As a forward vehicle a small 5m AoE healing aura for 10secs at a 20muni cost could also be allowed once T3 is built, to allow limited forward healing of its forward detatchment. Once T4 is built the unit could receive flares like the ones the PM81 mortar and the sniper gets. This gradual increase in utility could help the unit scale into the late game in its intended role as a scout vehicle and incentivize players to build it late in the game.
Snipers, the most frustrating units in the game, which can be extremely annoying to counter especially if you're a faction that can't countersnipe. I like an idea where snipers would have 50%/75% of normal infantry speed when moving around and 100% speed during retreats. I think it would go very nicely with the Soviet sniper, although this loss of durability would have to be compensated with the addition of a 2nd model to the squad, just like old times. This would allow counterplay by simply running at the sniper, meaning you have to support them in order to get the most out of them, while still allowing retreats to be done at normal speeds to preserve them. If the change with the speed is good then Ost and ukf snipers could receive similar treatment.
Penals, an alternative mainline infantry which has completely fallen out of favour since the introduction of 7man and SVT conscripts. I think a role change would suit them nicely. My opinion is that they should lose their SVTs in favour of Conscript mosin nagants, their PTRS upgrade and homing satchel (but not regular) should be removed and instead they should upgrade with HQ AT grenades like conscripts, their weapon upgrade should be a single flamethrower and their combat veterancy should be altered to not make them a mainline replacement but a specialist squad, something like vet 1 out of combat healing, vet 2 flamer burst rate of fire boost and suppression resistance, vet 3 5-10% damage reduction lower grenade and satchel cooldown and cheaper satchels. That way veterancy would fit their role and they wouldn't be of value if spammed as conscripts replacement since they'd be expensive, high target size and no accuracy bonuses.
Obviously my suggestion in general is T1 as an optional tier and its specialist units to be even more specialized for all stages of the game. The numbers and specifics of each unit are up for debate, anyone is welcome to propose alternatives, I'm just putting my own ideas forward.
I think T1 needs to be looked at in the next patch, it would make Soviets a lot more enjoyable to play and give more variety. |
Thread: T7029 Mar 2020, 11:16 AM
T34/76s have trouble penetrating a Panzer IV. OKW has more air support than USF,etc et
Not really, both crews and official reports from both sides confirm that the F34 gun on the T34/76 variants was sufficient to deal with Panzer IVs. 60mm of pen at 1km is more than enough to penetrate at every spot except for certain 80mm thick hull front spots, while 92mm pen with APCR at 500m could pen on every spot.
Worth noting is that pen in real life was not like it's portrayed in the game. If you hit a spot on a tank a few times even if you don't pen initially if your pen is almost high enough then the armour on that spot will be damaged and you will eventually pen.
tl dr: The F34 was far above good enough for its job, which was mostly blowing up infantry and strong points and sometimes killing P4s and Stugs.
I think this is the best angle of approach for this unit myself, and have no idea how the T-70 crew are reloading their 45mm gun* every 2s (down to 1.68s with vet...). The gun in real life had a rate of fire of 15rpm in the infantry version. The tank variant had a "semi-automatic" breech but I doubt highly this would be enough to double rate of fire for a weapon which still had to be loaded by hand and then also aimed and fired by the same crewman (2-man crew, no dedicated loader), who is also the tank commander...
The problem with the T70 is not lethality, that's fine and there's no reason to nerf it. The problem with the T70 is the complete lack of counter play in most cases, aside from building a Puma, since it combines lethality, amazing mobility, good enough armour to deter 222s and Panzer IIs and utility. In my view the mobility could be slightly lowered to make micro mistakes more punishing and let AT guns actually do their job. |
Thread: T7028 Mar 2020, 23:04 PM
For all we know the wipes in question could be a retreat from opponent base across very large/long map, being chased by T-70 for 30+ seconds uninterrupted..
Yeah but when most of the top players agree that it’s op it’s pretty hard to argue against them. There are some like Bao who think it’s fine, but the majority like borobadger, orangepest, whorunbartertown and miragefla to name a few all agree that in 1v1 the T70 is OP. |
Thread: T7028 Mar 2020, 22:30 PM
”I didn't build any counters and it cost me the game, plz nerf" lay a fucking mine. Build a pak. Try.
You can literally say that about any OP unit. You’re not even making an argument. |
Thread: T7028 Mar 2020, 19:31 PM
A vet 5 Obersoldaten in green cover for example loses to a vet 0 Shocktroop charging across red cover. Without fail, tested it like ten times.
This is worthless in a vacuum. Obers could retreat into a trench building and win. Obers can make shocks drop 2-4 models then retreat with 0 losses. Obers can set up in front if an MG and bait shocks. You will absolutely win the manpower trade between the two units if you play correctly, which is what matters. Shocks will displace the Obers because that’s what they excel at, but Obers will win the manpower trade. |
Thread: T7028 Mar 2020, 18:23 PM
without the T70 in its OP state, the soviet midgame would suffer a lot.
That's not true. If you nerf the T70s acceleration a bit, slightly up vet requirements and maybe make it 75 fuel the soviet midgame would not suffer at all. |
Precision shot is something isn't it?
Pretty sure that was the removed B4 ability. |
Thread: T7028 Mar 2020, 18:19 PM
Nobody wants to remove the T-70. It's just supposed to be brought in line with it's counterparts
It doesn't, making it into a Luchs is also a horrible idea. It just needs to not win games on its own as it does now. |
Puma's precision shot is a vet 1 ability?
Aimed shot. Yeah vet 1. |