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I don't think it was just chance, I think the industry and the RTS genre was at a point where something very much like CoH was inevitable. Some of the original team might have seen it, even if they weren't gifted at game design (and I'm not saying they aren't).
Gaming technology was moving faster around that time than it ever has imo, and most of what made CoH great were simple concepts being either updated in line with technology, or only available for the first time because of that technology.
Some of these mechanics are visible in the first DoW in much rougher form, namely squads, capture points, cover, and morale. Either because of Relic fine-tuning their ideas, technology moving ahead, or a bit of chance, you could say that CoH was a convergence point for a lot of simple ideas that piled up into a great game. |
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I didn't say the skill ceiling would now be "low", I said it would be "lower". What I'm struggling to understand is why we want that, especially when the satisfaction of seeing a hard-earned Vetted unit in action was one of the hallmarks of CoH. For casual and competitive player alike.
I don't agree that veterancy is merely icing. Just having another unit on hand isn't always a good thing. Rifles, PGs, and Tommies can all end up dead weight or even liabilities if they didn't earn enough vet come late game. Those core early game units are designed to have extreme scaling measures, and if Relic has significantly lowered how much units can scale the game is going to lose at least some degree of depth. |
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I don't have a problem with gaining XP from received damage either, but there was absolutely nothing wrong with the strength and reward of Vetted units in vCoH, that part is disheartening.
The only reason I can think to make this change is to lower the skill ceiling of the game. Anyone else want to help me out with some alternatives?
I can't imagine it's to prevent games from snowballing too much because there are far, far, far better ways of doing that (gaining vet from received damage being one of them). |
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I don't really get it. First in DoW2 where the devs explicitly state the most important skill is squad preservation, but Vet bonuses are virtually non-existent.
Now in CoH2 where early game units desperately need Vet to scale through the game, I don't think increased versatility in an ability will be enough.
And simply, the satisfaction of earning strong Vet units can't be replaced. It was really one of the trademarks of CoH, I don't understand the need and/or reason behind this. |
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Competitive is 5v5, which is almost a completely different game anyway. On top of the huge skill difference. |
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While I didn't play NS, it's much like Tremulous which I played for years.
It also has the same difficult balance problem Tremulous did - Humans require high levels of teamwork, and Aliens have a much higher individual skill ceiling. The two don't work well together in the pub environment.
It also has another humorous similarity - everyone on the official forums making ridiculous excuses as to why the skewed winrates don't matter.
But don't get me wrong, Tremulous was one of my favorite games of all time and NS2 is pretty good too, especially if you haven't played anything like it before.
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The best mirror players in DoW2 were almost never the best overall |
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No delay is needed. If a caster decides to forward information and ruin the credibility of his own tournament, well...he just ruined the credibility of his own tournament. Or ended his career as a caster for the game.
I guess this would be slightly more of an issue in CoH2 where the community is so small, but even in DoW2 this never happened.
Also, speaking of which...how can DoW2 have Obs slots but CoH2 doesn't? Very sad. |
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SE would be useless in a 1v1 PE mirror though
But I don't think anyone is debating that vCoH couldn't handle mirrors, the question is whether that's changed in CoH2. |
In coh terms, each and every teching path of the wehrmacht has to be balanced with each and every other alternate tech choice. For example, tier 1>2>3 Wehr might be balanced vs tier 1>4 Ami, but would it be viable vs tier 1>4 wehr play? Probably not...
As foreign as the thought is, I would provide my consent to mirror matches, as long as the balance changes they require don't diminish the interplay of the Soviets and the Ostheer.
That's the question. Americans were balanced around needing AT by a certain time (arrival time of the Puma). A mirror M8 would dominate the matchup, there would be no alternative to Motorpool tech. To create diversity in the mirror you would have to change how US AT worked, affecting US vs WM.
I can't say whether Soviet vs Soviet or Ostheer vs Ostheer will have these same kind of issues. Right now it doesn't look like it, but it's way too early to tell. |
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