Profile of Farlion

Farlion i get an error trying to reply. ill do it like this.

I never said cons should do that, and they cant either. one unit less to worry about one shotting grens and pgrens and pios,s etc.

But this thread is mostly about the 7th man of cons. like is said the total recource package to get cons at their peak preformance is higher then volks and grens. So how are they not meant to outpreform them both?
people say cons get a 20% dps increase behind green cover. how much damage increase do other main lines get after ai upgrades i wonder. i am not the most adept at the numbers but i am curious if it is simaler to the 20% of cons wich is tied to green cover.

Penals are strong but not capable wiping full health squads in mere seconds. The are not grens or Pgrens or Falls or Ober or Sections or Rifleman who all have grenades with short timers next to powerfull ai upgrades. If penals wipe a squad with the ages long timer on the satchel it is fault on the recieving player.

ost is not soley dependend on the mg42 to be viable. they are just more reliant on their support weapons until armour hits the field. if they where why would they even build grens snipers etc.

all factions that have good grenades on their inf are capable at wiping very early on. soviets need doctrines to do the same or wait for t70 etc. okw need docs as well or wait for obers.

you missed the part where i said the KT is non doc. that is the biggest reason. vs OKW you can always expect it. the IS2 is in very few doctrines so there is a fairly low chance to excpect it.
you dont balance a faction on doctrines of the opposing factions.

No worries.

The problem with the 7 man upgrades people is that it's simply too good of a package.

You're also ignoring what I said earlier. Grens also need tech to get them to peak performance, by the virtue of having to tech twice; researching battle phase and putting down t1 or t2.


As for Soviets, at this moment in time, you will see an IS2 nearly every time. If you face a Soviet in 1v1 or 2v2 right now, there's no way they're not going IS2, unless matchmaking has a fetish of putting me against people who only go IS2.

The fact of the matter is that Wehrmacht is depednent on the MG42. Your Grens are not going to beat Penals, Sections or Rifleman on their unless its under extremely favorable circumstances.

Even basic cons need an MG42 to counter, because there will always be more Cons than Grens.

Thread titled: State of the soviets

Content:

This thing soviet op, please nerf

This thing soviet op, please nerf

and this thing soviet op too, please nerf

oh, also penals are not viable anymore, because cons op, please nerf.


http://www.companyofheroes.com/leaderboards#profile/steam/76561197984739690/standings

Always by the same people.
So the same question as always: Do you really qualify to speak about the state of Soviets?


Any mention of how bad the maxim is? the 82mm? Reinforcing costs?


Best joke so far.

I like how you ignore my hundreds of Soviets matches as AT. You also discard the arguments other people made in this thread.

Amusingly, my player card is right next to my profile, why you felt the need to post it is beyond me.

I get you're salty after the whipping I gave you in a 1v1 today, but let's not derail this thread because of it.

This is not an argument for nerfing cons but bad micro/luck and faction design.

Nonsense. If the cheapest main line infantry all of a sudden becomes incredibly difficult to kill, while maintaining all their utility (sprint, at grenade, molotov, ability to put down flares and build cover) and being able to beat Grens and Volks while charging into them, there is a problem.

Especially when combined with other factors like the IS2 and T70.

How are you struggling vs cons when they are plenty of units like Obers, Falls, PGs, LMG/G43 Grens, and plus combined arms play?

Because my units are mostly 4 man that aren't that difficult to wipe. Good luck nailing 7 man cons. Losing a vet 3 gren is devastating. Losing a vet 3 7-man con isn't a big deal because due to the upgrade they are easily replaced.

Soviets have no ai upgrade outside the 7th man or nade non doc. The t70 being strong but coming latest compensates that. Shocks and guards being potent have nothing to do with cons being potent late game, they are doctrinal.
While guards and shocks can compete against doc and non doc inf, cons coudnt against almost every inf beat them handsdown without 7th man after ai upgrades hit the field. They where just a expensive snare unit nothing more. Now they can defend and force more input to dislodge them.

The tiger also counters everything sov. So why is only the is2 the problem? That said i do feel heavies in general come to early. They need a delay across the board.

Because the point of Conscripts is that they are supposed to be high utility units, not DPS machines. That's what Penals are for. But now with the 7 man they do get high dps in cover on top of maintaining all its utility and being very difficult to kill.

As for the IS2 and Tiger, the difference is that the Su85 has enough penetration and damage to deal with a Tiger. Axis do not have a tank destroyer that can do likewise.

The T70, while a frustrating unit, I believe isn't the problem, but the combination of factors that make Soviet late game so dominant, namely the 7 man conscripts and IS2.

Personally, why 7 man cons needed damage buffs when in cover is not entirely clear to me. The sole point of the unit is that it lives by its utility, not by its raw damage potential.

I didn't watch the majority of the WCS games, but was there a resurgence of Su76s? I've seen a lot of them on ladder recently, and they're ok. They're not puma or AEC though.

There wasn't because there is simply no need for them. Conscripts allow you to turtle with 2 Zis guns while you stall for the IS2.

+1 and thx for the good post.

I could live with the stronger conscripts but the IS-2 is a real problem imo. The problem starts with the fact that the unit turns the SU faction in a strong late game faction although this phase of the game should be the faction's weakness. The IS-2 is not only super strong, soviet players can also back it up with self spotting tds.

That being said i also want to point out a fact that did not get much attention:
Factions who are designed to be superior in early and midgame should NOT get their heavies at the same time like axis factions or brits.

My suggestion:
IS-2: CP increase to 11 CP, small cost increase like Blancat suggested

This is a good point I would like to emphasize. Soviets used to be an early-mid faction, but have now become the strongest late game faction in addition to still being incredibly strong in the early to mid. For obvious reasons, that is problematic.

And again, a tug of war between Conscripts and Penalties, who would have expected such a problem between two starting infantry units? It’s long time ago to get rid of one unit, but this will never happen - because there are no balls to take such a step.

While this would be interesting, I think it's too late in the game's cycle for such a huge change.