Profile of Princeps

And it will never be.
Grens are cheapest squad with cheapest upgrades next to cons.
Grens were never meant to be self sufficient, if that is what you are looking for, you are playing wrong faction. There is a reason why they have best ai support weapons in the same tier.

the tier is irrelevant in the lategame... as i said early to mid its all ok with mgs and sniper/morter etc. But in the late not.

Infantry sections have lowest vet bonuses of all mainlines.
Cons have very low base firepower and have no stock weapon upgrade or any upgrade until late mid/late game.
USF doesn't have best team weapons or reinforcement halftrucks behind them from the get go.
Understanding differences between factions is hard, isn't it?

Inf sections viable in the lategame ---yes
Rifle viable in the lategame ---yes
Cons viable in the lategame ---yes

Grens viable in the lategame ---NO

idk what u dont get.... OST is not viable in the Lategame T4 is shit and OST inf cant fight other mainline inf. The times are over where OST can rely on Teamweapon play.

we are talking about what... 20-40 MP in the earlygame to make a faction viable with T4 upgrade and make it playable again.

And all of them are much more expensive or have much worse support.
There is no problem in expensive unit beating cheap unit of the same role.

Make them cost more and therefore better in the lategame

The only LMG that's better then what they got belongs to obers, so that isn't happening.

And gues what.. Obers are viable in the lategame.

If you people want to play UKF or OKW so much, you'd have to switch to UKF or OKW, ost isn't going to magically change into one of them just because you flood the place with tears.

i want a viable OST that has a chance in the late and is Tournament comparable

No, they don't have any inf problem, because - and stay with me now - a 240mp unit with 60muni upgrade IS going to lose badly to 270mp unit with 90 muni upgrade and 40+ fuel side techs investment and 280mp unit with 120muni upgrade and at least 15 fuel side tech investment.

Just like soviets don't expect more then grens to go down to cons, neither should ost player expect grens to beat anything above cons without numerical superiority.

so we all agree that OST t4 is shit... so OST t4 is the Ost lategame. And here is the thing... the lategame AI unit the brumm is nerfed of the board.

OST needs any form of lategame inf to hold the line agaisnt allied inf pressure... ergo buff Grens in the lategame.

than make them cost up to 300 MP as long as they can fuckin fight in the lategame and not being trash when vetted and double MG untis running around.

I have no problem with paying 120 mun for double lmg grens...

and maybe consider that u cant just pick a doctrine and get a "free out of jail inf unit out of it".

The design of ost is to rely on support weapon play, this is fine till the mid game. After that the allied range firepower and supreme inf squats that go full rambo. As OST u go for Tanks P4 or Wind... but in the lategame they get shredd by 60TD and u have to fight with ur worse inf and support weapon disadvantge(against explosives). And than u should go for T4 ... but we all know that this is shit. u face problems especially in the AI department. Its getting only worse when scotts and heavy arty have with ur 4 men untis.


Long stoy short:

1. Fix Ost T4
2. nerf the allied 60TD Meta
3. make/scale grens better in the lategame

and pls nothing like 2mp reinforce cost reducton.

But hey lets do nothing and wait the next tournament, which will be like OKW vs USF,SU

With this in mind, and considering the current issues with T4 not being worth the price or what-have-you, and also considering the relative fragility of Grenadiers, which is still a topic of discussion even after the RD change, I have an idea which addressed both the T4 and Gren issue simultaneously.

It's simple, have acquiring T4 grant a global buff to Grenadier reinforcement time and cost as well as experience gain via a requirement action in the squad sbps. Given that Ostheer is supposedly a primarily late-game faction, this allows quicker replacement and veterancy gain by Grenadiers in the late game, allowing them to more quickly catch up with enemy infantry even if suffering wipes. At the same time, this isn't a major combat buff, and so should hopefully not be seen as a particularly dangerous balance direction, merely a way to keep Ostheer mainline infantry relevant.

For reinforce cost and time I was thinking a 10% reduction in both areas, bringing Grenadier reinforce cost from 30 to 27 and time from 6 to 5.4. For experience gain I was thinking 15-25%.

so your point is to make their performence better in the lategame is to reduce thier reinforcement time...

that will help a lot in the late game and will make OST so much viable ... i mean they can now be shreddet much more by allied inf.

now its not only cheaper to to lose inf fights but u can have that more often.

in other words " Hey Ost player ur mainline inf is so bad, in the late game u will have so much fuks ... better to get experience faster..."

Why not something like dps buffs or 5 Men or supression on third salvo on vet 3 ... ?

It's not worth it for 40ammo, but devs need to be careful with buffing emplacements because some really average players cheesed their way to top fourty before just by putting Bofors and pit together in the centre of maps.

What could be a possible fix to emplacements is a 80 range "no build" zone for mortar pit after you build a Bofors remove brace. This would prevent sim city

fixed for u

The point of the JP4 is not to kill stuff but to protect your KT/Tiger from Allied TDs, which it does extremely well. Have fun playing vs Tiger and JP4 combo. It's very hard to stop.

JP4 is actually a very fun unit to use if you know what you are doing. Camo + small target size + 800 HP with good ROF, accuracy and same range as Allied TDs make it very potent.

sure the Tank Destroyer is not there for killing Tanks... okay
and why shouldn't i go for a raketen? "to protect ur stuff"


in other threads its like "SU85 is weak because it can be dived super easy by P4 and P5."
And here its like "oh no a jp4, lets better not dive it, just stay out of range with my super moblie TD"

sure if ver hard means "get another jackson"