It actually does its job. Fire superiority at the frontal cone. It has better damage and kills more expensive infantry. Sry mr "i want suppression" but vickers is useful as far as you understand its strenghs and stop demanding suppression simply because you bring axis MG into comparison. If HMG42 didnt existed would you be ranting for more suppression? I dont think so
""flam'n'frag assault"
Each member throws a flame nade and frag nade, one in each hand, while shooting their STGs with their dicks. And are also invincible so players are drawn to use more volks and less JLI, who we will be buffing next patch further using some sort of design philosophy we determined years ago doesn't work while also making them cheaper to make them more attractive than "flam'n'frag assault volks but boy oh boy wait until we decide to try and make fussiliers more attractive... Ostr-obersoldaten anybody?"
Yeah that would be adequate... maybe if they were a little cheaper too...
I think they should just tie Incendiary nades to building a truck instead of just needing an sWs truck. Otherwise I don't really have an issue with them. Kind of annoying when you opponent is able to throw one 2-3 minutes into the game and swing an engagement. Molotov's aren't as problematic because Volks > Cons.
Flamenade timing is the most difficult thing to balance.
Too early and no garrison is available for allied to hold its ground agains swarming volks.
Too late and OKM cant push allies from easy to get green cover.
Finally as OKM is meant to be really aggressive early game, there is an endless discussion on with side must have an upper edge in a front to front clash. Thats why so many people rant about volks and its abilities
How panther is wrekt by any single one of them, when it outranges all of them?
Only vetted pershing and IS-2 stands to it.
And KT roflstomps over all of these tanks, what are you tring to say? KT AT performance is excellent, its AI is lacking.
Also, what does it have to do with firefly terrible effecitveness without pumping 100 muni into it every minute or so?
OKW Panther arrives much earlier then Ost panther and is in lower tier.
Nerf OKW panther?
No no, im just saying its an expensive trade. Of course if panthers get an edge on LoS it can turn things in its favour and no Panthers are not UP nor anything similar. As for the wrekt word i meant it as it does get a big pounding when fighting rather than countering the other tanks like an AT gun would.
But im going to disagree only with the KT, it doesnt roflstomps any of those tanks, not even close. KT has good AT but again its the most expensive trade and it doesnt complete its job
Brits have an advantage when it comes to tech rushing, yes, but they also have to pay above and beyond for things other armies get for free.
Psst that how assimetrycal balance is, just saying...
...30 T1, 120 T2. Costs for unlocking their T1 optional unit, cost for their T2 packages. Bolster, weapon racks and grenades. In total their full tech tree costs over 200, much like everyone else. Not the most expensive, but comprable.
Do not derail the point, UKF CAN rush a single FF faster than any axis can their TDs, not to mention its even more hurtful to tech on axis than UKF
Tech and build times are what balance out the unit arrival. Making a unit more expensive just because it can arrive early is god awful deaign that punishes longer games with cost inefficient units, punishing a player for every one they have to build beyond the first. It's not good design and it is not to be encouraged.
If you honestly believe the firefly arrives too early, put it behind the hammer/anvil. Don't make it too expensive for what it does.
Game balance (equally oportunities and time for every player), im just ending saying that, you get it?
And JP4 is not the unit intended to engage high armored units. Its why Panther exists.
What's your point?
But panthers get wrekt by a single or a 2 tank combination of the listed before, so its not a reliable (not so cost efficient) counter per se.
KT should ""counter"" any of the listed tanks but hey, its a meme tank nowdays...
I want to add a 15 fuel cost and you want to take away 45 fuel in costs. Explain that to me?
One upgrade of 150mp and 15 fuel for both stgs and flame nades. Don't see how that makes OKW unplayable. Volks are too cost effecient, here's an increase to their cost.
Show me another way to stop an unbeatable early game allie push... Penals,riflemen and UKF standing IS (because no one consider those buggers on the move, but when they stand their ground they really hit hard, even more in garrison)
Sturmpios buff then? I thing no one wants that...
Volks are the concept of conscripts for axis well developed. And you cant argue against that. Cost efficiency is the main strenght of volks. IMO we could debate how volks succed in combat but you will never take their cost efficiency out of them without nerfing the entire OKM to oblivion.
Why not give it more suppression but nerf some of its damage? Currently 2 things it is best at is wiping squads on retreat and beating other MGs in a 1 on 1. I doubt most people want their heavy MG to be only good at that. I personally think its high damage is the biggest issue because with the current damage, unless the vickers insta suppressed in a burst or less, it kills a model and has to retrack, and if it could consistently suppress that fast with its high damage it would probably be a little too strong.
I also feel its currently a bit inconsistent, while typically its pretty meh sometimes it vets up fast to vet 2 then feels pretty good.
I agree with you.
In other thread i gave the idea to normalize all HMG suppression and then balance each one with DPS or abilities. To give all HMGs a usable starting point.
I just want to point out that for OST is pretty painfull to see grens getting models killed really fast, when you get 2 models remaining its insta retreat, same effect would be for vickers to suppress as fast as an MG42, but in the first case you caused manpower bleed, in the other one you just deviated a possible assault. Many will disagree but vickers is really good with that dmg instead of suppression.
And finally if 1 vickers is not enough, get 2 and voila! Enjoy your murderer cone of axis death. Also pretty logic if the other player rushes with 2 or more squads.
-> HMG42 
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