With that performance they should make it non doc no one will complain.shitty arty is better than nothing
I disagree, I think it should be reworked with increased cost, reduced scatter and increased range, so that it doesn't cover half the map when you barrage and makes missplacing a barrage more punishing. Implementing it stock in current form would be cancer for both sides.
Would be nice if the LM auto-setup thing got fixed too. |
Sandbags should be transferred to engineers only unless in a commander ability.
How would this improve gameplay? |
Sandbags are ok, there are various tools to get the enemy to leave them, or you can just outright destroy them with any AT weapon, etc. Part of the game is to prepare yourself a position so that in future fights you have an advantage. They take some micro to build and they discourage the awful run&gun playstyle. I don't want to see any changes to sandbags... also trenches are significantly more powerful than sandbags. |
I'm not saying handheld AT blobs aren't annoying. They are. Just like regular blobs. But there are enough ways to deal with them which is why they generally aren't seen in higher level play. However as Elchino said, CoH2 is beyond salvaging when it comes to blobs. And it really isn't a big enough problem to go after.
I thought it was the lack of acknowledgement of the problem/solution. This issue affects mostly mid and low ELO 2v2+ games up to lvl 14 (rank 400ish) so a majority of casual players. This is why I thought it might be important to fix at some point. The effort disparity between the elite AT blob and the counter strategy feels inadequate with some factions more than other due to access to rocket arty and I just thought it might be good idea to address it or at least share my thoughts about it and receive some feedback. It is weird to me that Piat blobs are not nearly as much of a problem as Super bazooka Rangers and PSchreck PGs even though Piats are comparable and I just thought that the problem may lie in the squads that carry the weapon.
I had 1 game where my T34/76 penned 4 shots in a row frontally, destroying OKW P4, but that does not mean T34/76 got 100% pen chance against OKW P4 now, does it?
I thought this was just a typical Scott behavior, didn't acknowledge I had bad RNG. I am used to Scotts missing a lot even if I manually barrage a stationary pak40 from a distance, meanwhile Pak howie would have decrewed it from even further away, so I wasn't too surprised with results. I usually prefer to use the amazing M4A3 HE shells to deal with infantry-based problems.
Anyway, thank you for your tips and understanding.
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Now build actual dedicated AI vehicle and murder everything in range while kiting.
Even with 3 Scotts I had to reverse back to base on Alliance of defiance because 3 PG with schrecks were walking forward. By the time I cause him to retreat I am already back to my base losing map control. It's not a counter when I have to invest significantly more resources into the counter. |
Medium tanks have more range (40) than handheld AT (35). They are faster and have quicker aim time. It's pretty easy to kite AT infantry with medium tanks and kill models while taking next to no damage.
Handheld AT blobs are quite easily punished by players who know what they are doing. There are plenty of counters: kiting, mines, rocket artillery, HMGs, AI infantry, etc. Blobbing AT infantry is generally absent from higher ranked games. I can understand lower ranked players might struggle, but ultimately it is a strategy game where there are counters available (both on a micro-level and on a rock paper scissors level), and if players can't or won't use those then there is a certain point beyond which balance itself can't help anymore.
Yeah, medium tanks that are on the move and between range 35 to 40 have great AI... At this rate I may well kite back to my base because medium tank won't kill much in such situation unless it's very lucky and shit may go south really quickly if it gets unlucky, especially that you can't micro anything else because of A-moving Schreck blob.
It takes very long time to kill elite inf AT squads with your infantry.
MG get smoked/arty'd easily by dozen of doctrines with abilities like stuka smoke pass, light arty barrage, frag bombing, cover to cover, etc. and both Vickers and Maxim don't have great suppression, while .50 cal has very good single squad suppression but bad at suppressing blobs due to low burst duration and long cooldown. It also suffers from deathloop.
Rocket arty is available stock only to Soviets which makes them kings of teamgames. In one of the games against PSchreck blober I had to build 3 Scotts as USF because my tanks couldn't do anything to the 1hit salvo PGs. My infantry was firing at the PGs, but my infantry was also being shot at by P4, CP4 and an Ostwind. I could not engage enemy armour with my vehicles or ATG due to bundle nades, offmaps and Schreck wall. My MG was still locked by LT tech with its 250MP and 35FU req. It is such a stupid strategy that would be defeated with 1 good Katy salvo, but brits and USF don't have that. Even churchill would get eaten by such Schreck volume. It is boring to have to pick same doctrine every single time to fill the holes in the army design. Such crappy tactic should not allow to cheese mid and low ranks.
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I think this is not the right approach to this problem. AT inf are good vs tanks but they should be weak against infantry. This means that the easiest way to counter AT infantry is to use AI infantry, except Rangers and PG have low received accuracy and take too long to die from small arms fire unless you blob against them or use elite infantry. MGs can't follow your tanks around, so don't even suggest that.
By design Piat, Bazooka and PSchreck squads are not intended to fight infantry, so they could die a bit faster from small arms fire. To put an emphasis on it, you could either apply a modifier, but I'd honestly prefer to just swap the AT weapons to other, less small arms fire resilient infantry. Right now I don't see a problem with Piats, but 3-zook Rangers and 2-Schreck PG are a problem with their low received accuracy. I mentioned it already in the other thread, but I think that Rangers could lose ability to wield super-bazookas, it should be moved doctrinally or non-doctrinally to REchelons and PSchreck upgrade should be moved from PG to Grens (disable faust, take all weapon slots). RE with zooks would still be weaker than Panzerfusiliers with Schrecks so I dare you to call bias.
MP bleed that reinforcing AT infantry causes would be higher, even if initial cost of a squad was lower because of the difference in the target size between REchelons/Grens vs Rangers/PGs. Small arms fire would make it easier to punish blobs of AT infantry in mid and low ELO. I don't think top level of any game mode would be affected much. Less cancer for majority of players. |
What if you decide to pick your doctrine 10 mins in the game, you are full of infantry squads and you want to have the PTRS Cons? I don't like the new trend of every squad being a call-in with a bit different weapon. It takes away the flexibility of modifying your build if you decide to pick the doctrine later. I would only reserve the call-in infantry for squads problematic to balance like Brits (Boys and SMG Sections) whose bolster is optional, or infantry squads that are too different to stretch it as a weapon upgrade (Pathfinders, Falls, JLI, Assgrens, Guards, etc.). If possible I would prefer to stick to infantry upgrades rather than forming a completely different squad. |
All I was trying to say is that, yes, the situation is not perfect, but there's not much we can do in a world where all RTS combined probably have less players than one rank bracket in Rocket League or Call of Duty. So we should maybe just enjoy the cool game we already have, take it as a learning experience or fun mess-around game if you end up with a bunch of noobs.
^This |
First of all, heavy handheld AT weapons should not be distributed to squads with low received accuracy. It takes ages to kill Rangers/PG with small arms fire and trying to kite and poke them with tanks is just too risky and micro consuming. I'd rather have Grens have access to PSchreck upgrade than PG, upgrade would disable faust though. I would also have doctrines with Rangers/Paras allow them to equip just normal bazookas and give the Super Bazooka bonus to echelons as they would only be able to equip 2 of them and their squad size, received acc and reinforcement cost makes them no more powerful than Panzerfusilier with PSchrecks and takes away the insane alpha strike from Rangers. I see no problems with Piats on Brits.
Also give piats/bazookas/pschrecks an option to target vehicles only (like ATG). Firing all handheld AT at infantry (except for PTRS or Boys) makes very little sense with how the game is designed and creates a lot of unnecessary smoke and dust that makes it difficult to see incoming grenades.
It's not a big deal but it's super annoying in teamgames to have to fight around Pschreck blobs when you have fuel advantage and can't benefit from your mediums and your conscripts take ages to kill the PGs. This happens the most on medium-low ELO I think.
Edit: I think cost is fine. |