Challenging other people views is fine as long as it done in constructive way and not in "forum warrior" way.
Challenging other people and not their view is simply non constructive.
Nope the distance FF is not that big specially since it can delete a medium with one reload. And there reason why it feel to you that FF is up vs mediums is simply because other TDs are OP vs mediums.
If you are losing FF to PzIV you are probably doing something wrong.
Actually a Panther with the sight, accuracy, damage and vet bonuses of the FF would be OP vs mediums even it had that same reload and did not have Tulips. A vet 3 FF kills a medium with 2 reloads.
I can make a mode for to you to test.
So now when I highlight actually it's pretty weak vs closing in meds due to reload and fact tulips need to be still vs an easy to hit target you instead move the goalposts talking about vet3 bonuses in vacuum tests. But I'm not taking the bait
I'm getting flashbacks of the Sherman 76 thread already. Is there a Sherman variant in this game you don't think is over performing? |
And here lies your problem, you feel the need to "challenge" me.
At this point I have to point out that I did not start this thread I simply point out to OP that changing the damage is not enough to for make the a distinction "between heavy TDs" and "medium Tds". If the "heavy TDs" are more accurate, have more damage and penetration they will simply be "better" TDs.
There's simply nothing wrong with discussing and challenging other people's viewpoints. This is a forum, this is what forums are for.
If you want to decrease jackson or panther effectivemess vs mediums actually the best answer would be to mirror them with the firefly. It's by far weakest TD vs mediums in the game but still counters a heavy tank with the correct micro and support in its sniper role.
Of course this would mean hefty DPS nerfs and mobility nerfs to the other TDs as I pointed out in the panther thread... |
Agree with katitof that Tulips are extra, but my question is: Is HHF seriously saying FF is bad rn? Or that standardization will make it bad? I’m confused.
I simply replied to vipper challenging his calls for a redesign to TDs. Because he's trying to fight problems that don't exist.
I don't think anyone seriously believes FF is OP vs mediums, but he somehow lumps everything in with Jackson performance as if FF and SU85 can perform the same.
Jackson and panther can back away shooting and scooting vs such med rushes. FF and SU85 can not.
But I do think FF popcap is a point or two high, trying to field a FF and Churchill literally eats up all of your late game pop. |
The problem is a bit more complicated.
Heavy TDs need to less cost effective vs medium tank. The reason is that else in the long run they will always be a better choice of medium TDs. Increasing their damage is simply not enough since they will cause enough alpha damage to mediums to force them away.
Since they need they need high penetration their chance to hit medium needs to lower. So they need an accuracy reduction.
The JP having its range reduce to 50 is also problematic since the units is designed to counter M36/Su-85/FF because OKW do not have a 60 range ATG as other faction do.
Finally introducing a medium TD to all faction would only make sense if all faction had the same tools in other sector also and they do not. For instance they do not all have light tanks.
What use will a 8 second reload FF be if it can't hit anything? It already is vulnerable to mediums closing in but you act as if SU85 and FF have Jackson or panther mobility.
They don't |
That's because in Crete, Fallschirmjäger dropped without guns, most of which were never recovered. Your Bren story is at best anecdotal and at worst completely fabricated.
You should avoid comparing this game to history, especially since you are clearly not well versed in real-life history, you seem to prefer nonobjective and politicised versions of events.
As for the service record of fallschirmjäger units, they performed with distinction outside of the role of paratroopers, throughout the whole war. I would refer you to the service records of the following:-
-Fallschirm-Panzer-Division 1. Hermann Göring
-1st Parachute Division
-2nd Parachute Division
-3rd Parachute Division
-4th Parachute Division – included volunteers from the Italian 184th and 185th parachute divisions
-5th Parachute Division
-500th SS Parachute Battalion
-600th SS Parachute Battalion
-Brandenburger Regiment
All were or became Fallschirmjäger divisions that served with distinction, outside of their intended paratroop role. Particularly the Brandenburger Regiments and the 500th SS parachute battalion see [Operation Rösselsprung (1944)].
The problem with their inclusion, is that they are disproportionately involved in massacres of the civilian population, with two divisions accounting for approximately one third of all civilians killed in war crimes in Italy.
Lets let this game be a game and leave historical accuracy to games like steel division. Otherwise we'll have incredibly outnumbered axis armour and soviet tanks that can't hit anything and fail catastrophically when fire is returned upon them.
I never claimed CoH2 is a simulator, but it is a game with a historical basis. And most units and factions reflect that, EG assault grens getting plenty of MP40's and grenades, mirroring assault groups used in stalingrad where units would muster all the grenades and automatic weapons they could in ragtag order for house to house fighting.
Falls have been given a similar treatment from their original messy design, they only paradrop with half their automatic weaponry. This fits their "historical" role a lot better than being maxxed out terminators teleporting from houses with 4 FG42's and more panzerfausts than you could shake a stick at.
Really maybe it's you that should give reasons why the old house teleporting terminator falls that could magically pop out and snare tanks/wipe MG's are better designed than the present ones. Because I can't really see any apart from "lol OP". |
? UKF armor has 45 sight...
false
only crom, comet and FF have access to commander upgrade (three tanks, and ones role is a sniper). Churchill, centaur, AVRE, Croc do not have 45. Actually the AEC has less LoS than puma |
Completely agree, the overlap between Fallschirmjägers and Obers is criminal, I don’t get why Falls were remade into this WH40K Terminator squad and then had any utility removed to be Obers clones. They even have poison smoke at vet 1 like Obers, it’s absurd. The rework of Falls is definitely one of the worst balance decisions in recent years in the way it was handled.
Learn to read, it’s not about Falls being UP, they are extremely strong, it’s about overlap with Obers and having no role different from them.
Overlap? Since when did obers have camo and ambush bonus?
They took away Faust but made the unit field earlier, so you could argue they diversified it more. Obers don't come that early so you can fit a couple of squads in your build quite easily.
Also AT capability just doesn't fit the role of falls, they were notorious historically for being caught unprepared when something as simple as a Bren carrier turned up in Crete for example. Suffering heavy losses. |
|
I think you would have a lot of uproar from axis mains when the reload is set back to eight seconds, because that's how slow the FF reload is. This would be a straight up nerf to the panther. （Despite 200 damage FF currently has slower DPS than StuG for example, actually it's the worst core TD DPS in the game).
Now if you add ten range on top you would probably need to nerf survivability if it's going to be 60 range too so mediums have a chance of killing it.
Allies would have no chance of killing the thing otherwise. They have no Ele unit and all their TDs would be outmatched with its health pool and mobility. |
IS-2 just got hefty nerfs, I don't believe drastic changes are needed otherwise you're just overnerfing heavies into old comet uselessness. And FF is hardly over performing, it's got slower DPS than a stug with 8 second reload and much higher popcap compared to jagdpanzer despite then having similar cost and both being 60 range tds.
I wish something would be overconpensated for gren inability to fight rifles/penals/sections.
It's a good thing both axis factions get elite infantry stock then isn't it. |
Did I say that? Did even hint that? I have simply responded to a question by providing the relevant stats.
Taking about FF reload with taking about Tulips and higher damage per shot simply gives half the picture.
You are also assuming that FF is bad.
I did not compared it with Panther. I have simply pointed out that the change in medium target size will not have desired effect when it comes to FF.
Stats that are misleading in terms of a balance discussion, it's like posting shock troop and pathfinder stats together. Sure both are anti infantry units but high accuracy on pathfinders isn't relevant to the accuracy of shock troops.
Both tanks can't be compared as simply, different units different roles so judging only on accuracy is pointless. And yes FF is UP compared to other TDs, it's popcap is inflated. Just look at the Jagdpanzer pop for example.
Skilled players can make it work with the skillshot that is tulips, but unless you're Hans or Jove nobody is going to be pulling off full tulip hits on medium tanks so it is in a weaker state than all other TDs due to its sniper role. |
Relic Entertainment
cblanco ★ 
보드카 중대 
VonManteuffel 
Heartless Jäger 
