Either sounds good. If there was a way to combine a strafing run that tags tanks, that'd be pretty cool.
The problem is that the M10 has a use, but it's tied behind Armor Company, which has several deadweight abilities. And yeah, I greatly preferred it when the M10 was a call-in, mostly because it was a viable stop gap between Captain and Major. Now it's basically a turreted Stug.
As for using it over a Jackson, it's about two thirds the cost and just as effective against medium tanks. I'm also totally behind the idea of letting it be built if you have the Lieutenant + Captain teched (i.e. two USF base buildings).
I've tried using the AAHT against the luch, but its a stalemate at best. The Luch has light tank armor and a Stuart or 57mm is really needed to reliably counter them.
As for a special AT gun, you could honestly reuse the Recon Company airdropped AT gun group for the special zooks as well. Comes out at 4CP as well.
You’re right about the M10.
Paradropping anything in a tank destroyer theme doesn’t work, because the tank destroyer branch was always ground mobile and not airborne in nature. I’d rather not see a third Paratrooper themed company, unless it was a battle of the bulge themed one where the Paras rise in on trucks or just walk in from the off map like rangers. Call it a “American Reserve Company”. Lol |
Damn, wish I thought of tank destroyer company.
Anyhow, I feel like - while the current line-up is good - you could probably add in some kind of tank detection for riflemen and tanks (tank hunters), a passive that makes hit tanks show up on the map for slightly longer (hammer tactics), and maybe a USF version of Target Vehicle Mark (soviets).
i think you should put something else instead of the anti tank gun cause with the m10 you don't have to tech major and with atgun you don't have to tech captain + they're both anti tank. i would like to see m10 to be used more but i'd like to see it come thogeter with a tech of the LT AND CPT.
Not really. The M10, given that it arrives at 0CPs, is the version that's buildable at the Battalion building which requires Major. And the overlapping AT is still necessary, since the the mid-game gap where light vehicles reign supreme still requires the AT gun.
The way actual US tank destroyer units were supposed to act was as a counter attack unit sent to engage enemy tanks that had made a breakthrough by moving quickly from a rear area to intercept the break through unit and ambush it and/or counter assault into it. So M1 ATGs and the Riflemen field defenses represent the first part while M10s and M8s are the second part. I’d prefer the M10 to be a call in, but currently the game uses it as a buildable Major tier unit, so I put it in as that. A tank detection ability to replace the air recon would be fine though, but I think air recon is more USF style. A mark target ability similar to Soviets is a neat idea, but change it so the P-47s strafe the tank repeatedly with MGs causing some damage to light vehicles but stunning tanks while giving sight to ground forces but no extra penetration or bonus damage like the Soviet version. This strafe would not target infantry, but would damage and suppress infantry if they were too close to the tank being attacked.
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USF Tank Destroyer Company
0 Cp: Riflemen field defenses. Mine laying works with the tank destroyer theme.
4 Cp: P-47 recon flight. Spotting for advancing enemy armour is a key aspect of tank destroyer doctrine and it’s a good utility ability that isn’t over powered.
4 Cp: M1 57mm Anti Tank Gun off map call in. *Elite* AT gun team is crewed by Assault engineers or Rangers making it more durable to infantry attacks with the better received accuracy but costs more to reinforce. Sort of a trade off for not having to tech Captain. Works with the theme.
5 Cp: M8 armored car call in. The M8 was originally evaluated as a tank destroyer early in the war before they decided to only evaluate potential new TDs that had at least a 57mm, then 3 inch and finally the 76mm gun. Examples being the M1 Anti Tank Gun, M10 GMC and the M18 Hellcat (I’d love to see it but that’s a no go due to needing a new model.)
0 Cp: M10 tank destroyer. Obvious choice for the theme as they were the primary Gun Motor Carrage used by the tank destroyer branch during WWII.
This commander is themed off of the real US tank destroyer branch that fought very successfully in WWII. If you are interested in it please look up The Chieftan on YouTube. He is a veteran tank commander who does several excellent talks on the tank destroyer branch, the development of the Sherman tank and the general myths of US tanks in WWII. It’s very interesting for anyone that is a CoH fan or a historian in general. |
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Volkssturm doctrine for Wehrmacht.
Volkssturm squad call in. 1 Cp unit that is a copy of Volksgrenadiers, but comes with one free StG44 but cannot upgrade to anything else and has only one other weapon slot, also only gets up to vet 3 but costs 240mp to call in and has fairly cheap reinforcement costs. Can spawn from an ambient building but at only 3 or 4 men, but can still reinforce up to 5 men.
Panzer II Luchs call in or Panzer IV Support tank call in ( Same as Command P4, but no aura and can upgrade to pintle MG
On map buildable Howitzer (crewed with Volkssturm models)
For the Fatherland ability.
Light mortar strike. Mix of high explosive and smoke shells to distrupt troops and weapon teams. Not very powerful at wiping out weapon teams, but it blocks vision and stuns tanks so you can use it offensively to hit AT guns or MGs or defensively to provide cover and distrupt an attack so you can pull back.
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Ranger company
M8 armoured car call in
M4A3E8 “Easy Eight” buildable with Major tech
Ranger squad call in
105mm Howitzer strike (medium damage, medium speed and decent accuracy, just a simple artillery call in)
Riflemen sprint ability or some other utility ability
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I think this, combined with Partisans, would be quite interesting.
I like the idea of an S.O.E. or Free French Commander for UKF.
French resistance fighters (same as partisans but with only captured German equipment and maybe sten guns. No new models need to be made.) Good at CQB but have less received accuracy bonuses. Perhaps come as a pair of units, one with Sten Guns and MP40s and one with a Panzershreck and K98ks or No. 4 rifles.
Airborne landing officer.
Radio intercept same as Soviet version
Assault tactics (from UKF commando doctrine)
Lend lease/Free French M4C/M4A3(76) Sherman tanks, but with the beret wearing airborne landing officer as the top gunner model to look like a Free French armoured unit commander. Maybe with unique abilities that reflect being French such as linger sight range due to being familiar with the countryside. (Not realistic at all, but could be fun!) |
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Heavy Infantry Company for USF.
Rangers, M1918A6, Riflemen buildable cover, Priest ( or on map 105 Howitzer if able) and some kind of off map support ability (smoke artillery, light mortar strike, WP smoke, combined arms ability, or maybe a recon run P-47). |
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I like the idea of an early war themed commander for either OKW or WM that has StuG E or Panzer IV with the stubby barrel (like the command tank but no aura and a pintle MG) anti tank rifles as an upgrade (for Pioneers or Volks), on map howitzer or something like that. Additionally, a global change to all post-1942 units to an earlier similar piece of equipment. This would be a buff and a nerf depending on the unit. For example, no StG44s or MG42s, but instead you get MP40s and MG34s. This nerfs panzer grens, but buffs regular Grens to nearly Obersoldaten levels. Of course this may not work with WM tier 4 being basically all late war units.... but a Tiger I for OKW would be super cool instead of a King Tiger!
A shoot down air support call in for USF and/or UKF would be cool to symbolize allied air dominance (Hey, even call it that! Lol) where you click the ability and a pair of typhoons or P-47s fly by and shoot down any aircraft currently flying. It would be very situational and maybe are to code, but would instantly eliminate enemy “skill planes”.
Lend lease Shermans to UKF. They used tons of American stuff, even more than the Soviets.
Something for Soviets that includes the unused commissar model. Maybe a commander upgrade to conscripts that adds one Comissar to the squad with a PPSh, no aura, just an extra guy with a better gun that always dies last. |
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A general higher cost for light vehicles would encourage sniper heavy play early on. This would only further amplify the trend of Soviets and Wehrmacht being the two dominant factions as they have the best snipers.
I would try increasing the fuel cost on light vehicles but reducing the manpower cost. This slows teching, and makes them harder to easily replace, but wouldn’t be a flat nerf. |
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How about this, if it is underperforming for its cost then just reduce its cost until it performs the same, but isn’t UNDER performing FOR COST.
You won’t break the balance, but you will see it more often because it is more accessible.
Reduce fuel and manpower cost a little.
Reduce popcap cost a little
Improper veterancy rate a little
This way you get it more often and it gets better if you can keep it alive to earn its veterancy bonuses, which it now could actually get because of its lower veterancy requirements.
Keep it simple. Reduce cost. Boost veterancy. Have a beer. Cheers! |
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