Commandos might as well receive the Stormtrooper treatment, spawning at full strength but with rifles with a free upgrade to Stens. This would solve all problems at once. No ludicrous MP cost, no cheesy retreat wipes. Infiltrating behind enemy lines at full strength (upgrading to Stens) would require planning and cunning.
I believe that would also make commando weapon teams, manned by infiltration commandos, armed with their default rifles instead of STENs. Personally I like this as a change, except I would give them M1 carbines instead of Lee-Enfields as it is more suitable as a commando weapon and it is highly likely that special troops like Commandos would have access to US weapons like the M1 carbine. This way infiltration commandos get a mid range weapon that isn’t OP and can still upgrade to their really strong SMGs later. When manning a weapon team they would revert to their Carbines and thus be less dangerous to flanking squads. Additionally, and I think most importantly, it would allow 5 man infiltration commandos to be sneaky, dangerous and still survivable while not being too strong. This would encourage aggressive commando spawning because they would be survivesnle at 5 men, but not be too strong with just M1 Carbines.
Basically it’s a win-win. Axis doesn’t get clobbered by OP commandos popping out of buildings, but Allies still gets to try commando pops without being heavily punished by the risk.
Also if you want to make the infiltration commandos even more interesting, you call them SAS infiltration squads or SOE infiltration squads and make them upgrade from M1 Carbines to having three or four Thompsons plus Carbines. This would make them thematically different but still filling the same role as they currently do, while also satisfying the desire for Commandos to have tommy guns.
(Historically Commandos really favored the Thompson, although for them it was usually the earlier M1928A model, not the M1A1 in game and it was primarily because the Thompson was commercially available from the US at the time and STENs we’re still not yet in mass production. ) |
@Katitof
You’re a bully....
And we love you for it. Lol |
OKW vs USF 64%
OKW vs UKF 70%
Ost vs USF 63%
Ost vs UKF 66%
Sov vs Ost 53%
Sov vs. OKW 52%
Sounds like the Soviets-Wehrmacht-OKW matchup is pretty fair at about 50%.
It’s the USF and UKF that are under performing when compared via win rates.
The best course of action is probably to reduce USF and UKF unit and reinforcement costs slightly across the board (ex: Riflemen from 280/28 to 270/27) this will be a gentle buff to US and UK forces without changing the actual way any units interact.
Once again, following my golden rule of balancing, if it over performs, increase its cost, if it under performs, decrease is cost.
As factions as a whole, Wehrmacht and OKW are about even with Soviets while USF am UKF are underperforming, so lower costs slightly across the board for core units from USF and UKF and see what that does to the balance. I think you’d be surprised by how well that can work as a starting point before you start messing with unit stats. |
Apply the simple solution I always suggest to this problem: adjust cost.
If it’s too good for it’s cost, make it more expensive. If it’s not good enough for its cost, then make it cheaper.
In this case a simple increase to the cost of using Panzer Tactician (stupid name, by the way. Why can’t it just be called smoke dischargers? Lol).
Panzer Tactician is a little too good of a get out of jail free card. BUT if it cost a little more, say 5-10 munitions more, then over using it will cost you the ability to buy LMG42’s and lay teller mines etc. |
Since they're based off of Brandenburgers (which made extensive use of captured weaponry), why not allow them to upgrade to captured weaponry like a 1x DP-28 or 2x PPsH? I also echo the self-healing medpacks idea.
I love that idea, but think it’s more appropriate for Osttruppen to get DP-28s instead of MG42s.
PPShs for Stormtroopers sounds good though, if they give them two PPShs and two MP-40s.
Personally I’d like to see them start with four K98ks and free ambush camoflauge (regardless of whether the commander has i)t and upgrade to either a Support Package with an MG-34 LMG and tripwire flares, Assault Package with MP-40s and PPShs plus anti infantry mines or a Panzer-Jaeger package with dual Panzershrecks plus AT mines.
Make them expensive but versatile and powerful, much like Paratroopers. |
I think modern weapons could be easily represented without resorting to mainly using the old semi-auto stuffs, or keeping all the automatic stuff as upgrades. I would love to see hundreds of AK's and M16's in use. With CoH's damage model, they wouldn't really be OP either, as damage values in CoH are nowhere near, and should probably not get near Men of War levels.
Also; To the Korean War guy, I do agree that that war needs some more attention and is ripe for vidya games, but the not-so-balance friendly nature of the two different factions would be hard to do in a RTS game. American Pershings going up against surplus T-34s? That would be a slaughter (as it was IRL).
I wasn’t saying to use purposely older stuff for balance reasons, I was saying that you can implement diverse weapon profiles withsi auto only rifles because that was what was actually in service at the time. The US army didn’t issue M16s wide scale until well into the 1970’s except in Vietnam. US troops in Europe were mostly still armed with M14’s for various reasons. It really depends on the time you set it in. A 60’s setting would be mostly M14’s while an 80’s setting would be virtually only M16’s. 70’s would be a mix. |
If you want to justify use of a weapons system based on Lend Lease, that should not be hard at all. There will be a lot more Lend lease items of any kind that was shipped than there were of most of the German weapons systems that are today considered by COH1 and 2 aseveryday items used by the Germans.
Only a few 10,000s Thompsans in use by the Soviets? No problem. Only 7200 FG42s of all variants were produced by the Germans, and many of those had flaws.
Want to justify any armored vehicle? Only 40 Ostwinds were ever made. The Bergtiger is non-doc in PE/COH1, but only 1 of something that MIGHT be considered a Bergtiger was ever found, and that one might have been unable to do much. There were a few Bergpanthers, but only a few.
Want to justify a light vehicle? Only 200 20mm Pumas were ever made and only 100 of the upgunned versions. Too bad. had the Germans realized how well they performed in COH1 and 2 maybe they could have made 1000s and won the war.
XD XD XD
Lol
Don’t let the wheraboos find out that their master race army is a fantasy. |
I also have a dilemma with any parachute unit in the game, why paratroopers can't re-drop? The main purpose of the paratroopers is to action behind enemy lines, but they turn out to be disposable. There-drop of several units reveals new tactics:
- large diversions in the rear of the enemy
- reserve in defense
- simultaneous offensive from the front and rear
CoH 2 isn’t that kind of game.... sorry.
But you still CAN drop them once and be aggressive with that first drop. High risk for sure, but it can be a high reward if you pull it off or use it as a distraction to punch through the front and link up with them.
Kinda like how they were used IRL, but just small scale. |
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1. Mosin-Nagant is Belgian. Russian rifles just happened to be built
on license. Most people don't know that
2. The M1 rifle was named after its Canadian-American designer, John Garand.
French Canadian-born Garand went to work at the United States Army's Springfield Armory
3. What is in your collection?
4. Mind you, the germans had huge amounts of MG42s, that kinda made
their squads still outgun american ones.
1. Mostly true, but it’s actually more complicated than most people think. C&Rsenle has a wonderful episode that explains the development of the Mosin-Nagant rifle. Check it out. https://youtu.be/nqmkRZOIlfY
2. True, but now he’s a French-Canadian-American, so you get to claim him, but we get to claim him too. It’s like having divorced parents, you get to have twice as many presents on christmas, but people still fight over you.
3. Lots. Lol M1 Garand, M1 Carbine, M1903 Springfield, M1898 Krag-Jorgensen, M1911A1, M7A1 Grenade launcher for the Garand with practice grenades ( it’s a hoot! Lol) M16A1 (from a parts kit, semi auto only), M16A4, M4 carbine, M91/30 Mosin-Nagant, 1895 Nagant revolver, polish built AK-47(it’s an AKM, but that’s not as common of a name for a stamped sheet metal AK), 1897 Winchester shotgun, Japanese Type 99 Arisaka, Kar98k, Mauser C96 pistol..... I also have several newer firearms and some older stuff that’s not WWII or military related like some Smith and Wesson revolvers and a few guns for concealed carry.
4. I don’t know if I agree with that. The US fielded a whole lot of MG and the British had a ton of Bren Guns, so I wouldn’t say the Germans had a firepower advantage. Especially when you factor in the total firepower of the whole infantry unit’s combined arms firepower. But that’s a discussion that requires more research before I can say for sure.
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- I've fired a number of rifles, usually using ironsights or scopes,
but never peeps.
- Most games show the K98 as the superior ranged rifle compared to the
Garand which has a higher Rate of Fire but is the inferior marksman rifle.
The Springfield being preferred.
And now you say the Garand is more precise than the K98?
Ah, nice series of precisions there. An american general said the M1Garand
was simply awesome. Patton?
Interesting. I'll have to go fire one now
Yeah, M1s are game breakingly good in real life compared to even the best bolt action.
But we weren’t trying to make it fair, we were trying to win. (And we did.)
C&Rsenal put up a great and in depth video on bolt action rifles that includes a segment on iron sights near the end of the video. (~2 hours and ten minutes in)
Link: https://youtu.be/GvtBNpc_xY8
If you wanna shoot some guns come down to Arizona and you can shoot some of mine! I’ve got a pretty decent collection of WWII and other historical small arms. You really can’t understand why the M1 is so great until you try one. For that matter you can’t really tell why a Mosin-Nagant is so crap until you compare it to a Mauser either. Lol |