They're not equivalent at all.
Against an LMG42 Grenadier squad in green cover, you can take another piece of green cover and coverfight it, with the result being down to numbers and weapon ranges as usual. You've also got the option of rushing in with a CQC unit, in which case the Grenadier has to retreat.
Neither option works against JLI. They've got such extreme bonuses against squads in green cover that your only option to fight them is to close in, and then they've got Sprint to escape that.
Your only options are heavy investment in doctrinal CQC and light vehicles. It feels a lot like playing against a Sniper, and as someone who doesn't like playing against snipers, playing against JLI is a horrible experience.
They don't have snares, is that right? |
I REALLY feel like people are overstating JLIs power. While I havent tried cav rifles, I have used AEs extensively, and they simply destroy JLI. Basically, AEs, cav rifles, and rangers should easily beat jli squads on a 1 for 1 basis. Combat wise, JLI are grens with better RA, a g43 sniper instead of an mg42, and an ambush bonus (which grens can also get with the right doctrine).
I have Rangers in mind, but the problem is closing the distance to JLI. |
Fighting overperforming long range unit with underperforming long range unit is not very smart...You would rather try close range units like rangers, paras or cav rifles and closing with smoke. Jli are not very durable at close range.
In the process, the advancing unit will take casualties which is something i need to avoid against them since JLI have the advantage. I also thing that Rangers will work, or even Paratroopers with double LMG and covering fire ability. Maybe this will work. I'm not pretty sure about Cavalry Riflemen though |
JLI have 0.9 accuracy versus cover. Unless I've misunderstood the stats, the usual penalty is 0.5.
Fight them at range, they'll win.
- They cloak in cover, giving them a hefty First Strike bonus when the fighting starts.
- They get a 0.9 penalty rather than a 0.5 accuracy penalty in a cover fight, meaning you get very little benefit from cover whereas they get the full benefit.
- They roll instakills at 75% health, negating the damage reducing benefits of cover.
If you manage to get in close, they'll use their Sprint ability to go back to range. Not only do they have a huge stack of bonuses in coverfights, they've got an escape ability if you ever catch them at an advantageous range. These things can kite Shock Troops at the moment.
The only bit of good news is this CP1 infiltrating budget Obersoldaten squad also has the weakness of an Obersoldaten squad: vehicles slaughter the things, with a solid chance to wipe on retreat.
My guess is that denying cover with grenades or molotovs from Soviets (2v2) also won't work, right? So my only bet is vehicles? |
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It crossed my mind today, so i will need some guidance for this. But first i will need some answers.
1. Do JLI get 1 G43?
2. Has anyone used USF's Commanders (Infantry, Tactical support) that provide the M1919 LMG?
Can the M1919 LMG compete with the G43 at far range? Will Riflemen have a chance of winning an engagement versus JLI? What are the stats for those weapons so we can compare them? Maybe the long range play is a temporary solution to JLI hordes. |
PLS read my post understand it and quote me only if what you are posting has any relevance with the quoted post.
I did not compare Ro.E. or R.E. with SP. I responded to a claim "builder/repair units do not have great veterancy" and proved to be wrong.
In addition the OP is talking about the veterancy and not the unit.
Yes of coarse it does it increase DPS and HP by 25%.
When it comes to "fighting" vet bonuses Re.E get
+20% accuracy
-23% received accuracy, -20% weapon cooldown
Increases the squad's size to 5
and that is allot.
Still their stock weapons are crap and can't be compared to Stumpioneers at ANY stage of the game. Even with that +20% accuracy REs can't fight. If you are bothered by that 5th man, then i got a solution for you. Give Stumpioneers a 5th man at vet 3 and a 6th man at vet 5.
And before you say "i'm not talking about balance, i didn't imply that i want to change them", things are simple. This forum is filled with Axis mains, and before any of you in here contradict those words, just see the threads the last few days. "How are JLI op?", "NERF Assault Engineers", "Change the Tiger Ace", "Remove the Tiger Ace resource penalty", "Allied MGs are totally fine and can deal with blobs" (although they can't suppress even a mosquito). Seems a little bit one sided to me. |
Re.E vet 1 bonus of 20% accuracy is great so is the 5 man a vet 3 (probably some of the top in game), contrary to your claim.
You are entitled to you opinion. I am glad that you reach SP vet 4-5 reliably, pls provide replays with your games. If you currently do not have one pls record one next time.
I did not dig out any problems OP did, so pls cut down on the personal comments it a near year and chance to be less personal in the forums.
Echelons are armed with M1A1 Carbines. Great rate of fire, but the unit itself has terrible accuracy. Also the gun is semi-automatic. On the other hand, Stumpioneers are armed with StG44 Assault Rifles. Obviously better rate of fire, and they can fire on the move. Assault Rifle vs Semi-automatic Rifle, the Assault Rifle wins.
Does the 5th Echelon improve the unit's battle effectiveness? Not at all, unless armed with BARs or LMGs. |
Sturmpioneers early game combat power has been a discussion for ages. Secondly the Assault Engineers are stronger than them as shown by the stats I posted earlier.
Thirdly, Assault Engineers go up against enemies that aren't as well equiped to deal with them as the Allies can deal with Sturmpioneers. USF have Riflemen with good near and mid range DPS, Soviets have 6 men squads and the Brits have T0 HMGs and the UC. Sturmpioneers are simply less problematic than 2-3 Assault Engineer openings because they have less impact.
Again, these changes would negatively affect their entire game performance when only the first 5 minutes are the problem. The solution should therefore be searched for in delaying the timing of their power creep. Giving them 1.0 target size (0.9 at vet1) and putting the flamethrower behind tech would do exactly that.
Then there is no need to pick Armor Company at all. You just get Rifle Company, give flamethrower to Echelons and also stick a BAR to them. Voilà, you get a flamethrower without struggling. |
The issue is not their strength in general, the issue is specifically their strength in the first 5 minutes of the game. Anyway I have no idea where you want to go with this discussion because you seem to take it in a completely different direction with every single post.
Stumpioneers are also strong in the first 5 minutes of the game, but nobody says a thing about them. It's just that we all got used to seeing the early game USF getting steamrolled and now we can't accept that they have alternatives and a stronger start because of that. I just think that it's not a solution to lock their flamethrower behind tech. If we really want to adjust them, let's increase their cost or put them on cooldown. Or even better, change their stats, decrease their damage output. These are some ideas. |
>Elite troops never die.
And i'm playing airsoft, so i'm a professional operator ready to kill ISIL insurgents. I'm better than SAS, Delta Force, JTF2 and other Tier 1 special forces teams 
On topic again : So what? Obersoldaten, Rangers and Paratroopers are also elite infantry but they also die because they are designed to take casualties. We are playing an RTS game, not a Captain America or a Universal Soldier video game. |
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