As said before, changes to pfussies were discussed. For various reasons, they did not go through (well to begin with, the decision was to not switch them in for Elite Armor's signal relay; this would have given us the scope to alter them).
Regardless, the take aways from these conversations were that:
-Schrecks and AT rifles (or any other weird AT options you could come up with) would not work - sturms already have schrecks and AT rifles are pretty weak in general (notice how the only faction that has them is the only faction with no other access to handheld AT).
-Whatever the changes were, they had to try as hard as possible to avoid making OKW's early game stronger - this is for obvious reasons.
And, honestly, that kind of eliminates most suggestions here.
For whoever is wondering, the final proposed change to pfusis (if I recall correctly) were that they would be buildable from t0 at 0 cp, cost 280 (? I think), start at 5 men and earn their 6th with vet, and have their g43s + snares + nades locked behind their first tech structure (just like volks stgs + panzerfausts). I really don't think pfusis in this weird repair/utility role would work - OKW doesn't exactly lack in the repair department, and Breakthrough doctrine even already has a capping ability. Having them in an AT role was already addressed previously in my post, but I should also note that we were cautious about anything that could bring back something akin to old volks blobbing. To actually explain the changes, pfusis are a mainline replacement infantry that comes too late to actually replace the mainline. The changes aimed to give OKW, a faction with an oppressive early game and mainline infantry that falls off late game, the option to trade their early game power for mainline infantry that could actually scale really well into the late game, and the changes probably actually work to that end.
This +1
Basically give OKW the option of a slower WFA allies mainline start without the nonsensically OP 6 men g43 terminator |
If you honestly do believe JP4 is the same power level as Panther, then I don't think you should be allowed anywhere near balance forums.
Do you also believe cromwell and comet are same level of power? They are same tier after all.
I just said that top tier DOES NOT reflect unit power, but teching cost and arrival time
Or you think we can put su76 in Tier 4, since there's no difference apparently ?
Comet comes far later because behind a subtech. |
Top tier and final tier aren't interchangeable. Is t0 called bottom tier? I know conscripts are bottom tier infantry, but they are Also t0. is the Maxim of greater caliber than the mg42 because it comes from a tech building and costs the same? No! (even though grens are better than cons despite the same......) is the werfers a better rocket arty than the walking stuka? Is the T34 of the caliber of a panther?.. Is this REALLY a balance discussion? Like were all here talking about this? Bloody fuck.
Top tier has nothing to do with sheer power but tech tree allocation.
It's absolutely not pure semantics because behind that there's an higher teching cost. The moment su76 and jp4 will come at the exact same time Katitof REEEEEing will be justified |
His language was unclear and I don’t know if he meant it this way, but “top tier” can denote “the best” “the most superior” etc. By the definition of top tier you stated, the major, a 3 man squad with 2 rear echelon M1 carbines and an M1911 pistol, is a, nay, the, top tier usf infantry squad. Semantics are weird XD
Top tier means top tier, the rest is poor deflecting.
And yes, a nondoc free squad that can call nondoc offmap arty and recon and serve as free mobile FRP to pair with ambulance is top tier |
Ok, explain this:
Shocks are present in counterattack doctrine.
What needs to be done to be able to counterattack?
Yup, you first need to be attacked and repel the attack.
Once you -defensively defend against an attack- you can counterattack.
Therefore, shocks are just as much defensive as offensive and for years now.
Plus, the game is about capturing and holding 3 specific territories, not about destroying your opponents base, therefore all MOBILE units are offensive, because they need to get and capture that specific territories and all units are defensive, because they need to hold these specific territories to win.
In context of CoH2, there is no such thing as "offensive" or "defensive" unit.
Nonsense
1) You are assuming Counterattack has thematically fitting units already except multiple doctrines showed to have units that hardly fit the commander theme, and Counterattack never went under any rework.
2) A unit doesn't need to cover up the whole doctrine, Shock are the attack part of "counterattack".
3) Shock are unsuited to defending. If you actually bothered looking at dps curves they are the least suited cqb units for defending, even compared to ass grens.
You have been proven wrong on multiple levels and you keep twisting facts, just stop. |
Pfussies get 3 G43s.
If we pretend to ignore panther, which is specifically designed to counter high armor targets that is.
Just because its not called TD in the sense other TDs are, due to its ability to effectively engage infantry, doesn't mean its not top tier vehicle designed primarly to counter other vehicles with high armor specifically.
You are being delusional right now.
TOP Tier means that is build in Tier 4.
Jagdpanzer 4 is a top tier TD, like it or not. |
No man, a few people gave you the facts. here you are in denial.
Facts from me:
1) Shock Troops appear in game in Stalingrad, that means that the unit is inspired to the elite shock army troops deployed in the closing day of the battle, when soviets where litterally fighting for Volga docks. NO UNIT in coh 2 campaign (or any coh campaign) breaks any time rule.
Germans lack a long barrelled vehicle for half the campaign. Not even ToW allows you to deploy units that weren't deployed by the time period you are playing on.
2) No quote, equipment, descrition and ability shows that they are ass engies
3) Those assault engineers weren't named Shock Troops, while the Shock Troops where the elite division deployed months after Barbarossa start.
Feelings from you:
1) They are assault engineers because i say so
2) Relic units aren't historically accurate because i say so, but only to the degree that i like. |
Well, JP4 is not top tier TD of OKW
It is |
Because Relic was made not historical, boring, the Enemy at the gates stereotype a single company that has nothing to do with history. Assault Engineers (Shock Troops) have never been used in Stalingrad. Only Assault Teams (Regular Infantry)
Now Relic doesn't make historically accurate unit, yet you somehow keep saying that ShockTroops are a representation of these "assault engineers" except every single thing of this unit is telling otherwise.
You are simply in denial |
It's simple:
- the first SN-42 was used by infantrymen in 1942 on the Western Front (this is far from Stalingrad),
- assault engineers (aka Shock Troops) were formed in 1943 and did not participate in the Battle of Stalingrad.
- Stalingrad Assault Team - this is the usual infantry, the Assault Team is a method of war and not a branch of the military.
Then what tells you that the one testing in 1942 the armor aren't those Shock division (whose name is in the game unit) and those were represented in game ?
In the single player campaign you get Shock troops in 1942. |
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