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Thread: Commander Update Beta 2021 - OKW Feedback22 Apr 2021, 09:54 AM Jump back to quoted post22 Apr 2021, 09:15 AMSander93 Besides perhaps Scavenge, I don't really see what other OKW commanders would need. OKW has the biggest set of viable commanders in the game imo. Apart from Scavenge (that is getting 2 buffs already) and Fortifications (1 big buff and some small ones) all commanders are popular across the different modes. The goal of this patch is not to create more top tier commanders, it's to bring as many commanders to the middle tier as possible. And the majority of OKW commanders is already at that middle tier. I don't see how those commanders are any good How frequent the 221 is in those games, the 15 fuel car that comes after 15 fuel of tech and can barely go toe to toe with unupgraded UC? How well does Panzer Commander synergize with a commander that has an heavy that doesn't use it (meaning you will have at best another panzer 4 with it, and surely not a panther ehich benefits the most from it)? How reliable is the Sturmtiger, especially compared to the avre? In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Commander Update Beta 2021 - OKW Feedback22 Apr 2021, 07:59 AM Jump back to quoted post22 Apr 2021, 06:53 AMSmartie We mentioned the issues with OKW's 2nd tier commanders since the release of the 1.0 Version. Nothing changed so far. And we already know that only fine tuning is coming in the next versions. We just have to realise that a majority of the mod team members dont want any more changes to 2nd OKW commanders. In my eyes it's a huge missed opportunity but further posts just seem to be a waste of time in this thread to be honest. Yeah, it's a pity, because a few small changes could possibly fix blatant issues In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Commander Update Beta 2021 - OKW Feedback22 Apr 2021, 05:12 AM Jump back to quoted post22 Apr 2021, 04:09 AMFunPolice I really hope we can see at least one bigger change to Scavenge. The doctrine really needs more help than the small it got with those volks repair kits. Idk what that could be but infiltration nades don't really fit in the commander and could probably get replaced with something else. A 221 could maybe be a neat inclusion since it can help boost the economy which is kinda what this doctrine is meant to do. Scavenge is extremwly powerful right now. The only OKW commander without wasted slots and bad abilities, together with Overwatch The issues are Elite Armor The 221 has awful performances for its cost and timing The Sturmtiger shell is still unreliable Grand Offensive Panzer Commander can't be used by the Tiger anymore, it should be replaced by Another ability Special Operations Radio Silence is still useless and should simply be changed with radio interception at this point. If it was useful, it would also be OP btw so that's a good thing. I guess you can counter minimap/tacmap based recon with it and that's it really, but most of the time forms of recon like this give no warning, it's usually a camoed unit or behind some sight blocker Feuersturm Opel Blitz was changed to have lowered armor and turned into an ambulance, makes no sense in a doctrine that was otherwise made for Tier 1 play (early Hetzer, mp40, incendiary munitions...), it would fit better in Fortifications or Overwatch. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Commander Update Beta 2021 - OKW Feedback21 Apr 2021, 21:11 PM Jump back to quoted post21 Apr 2021, 21:07 PMKatitof Your analogy is as accurate as B-4 on max range shooting into FoW. You are right, KV1 doesn't require a relatively expensive munition upgrade to work which gets outdone by a single bar, but close enough In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Commander Update Beta 2021 - OKW Feedback21 Apr 2021, 21:08 PM Jump back to quoted post21 Apr 2021, 21:05 PMSkysTheLimit What? They do that for infiltration units just to keep them from spawning and immediately wiping things. Hence the cooldown on their nades as well That has nothing to do with fusiliers No, wrong again, they also do that with tech locked upgrades like fg42, but that's besides the point. There's no reason for Panzerfusiliers to be this overpriced, not at all. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Commander Update Beta 2021 - OKW Feedback21 Apr 2021, 21:05 PM Jump back to quoted post21 Apr 2021, 21:00 PMKatitof No, you have completely ignored what I have said and have pulled a poor star man there and now you're doing some weird, unrelated mental gymnastics, but I'll address it for fun: KV-1 does not compete with P4. KV-1 competes with T-34/85 for place in soviet BO. You know, like PFs compete with volks. You are perfectly right, we should rebalance KV1 to have the same cost but starts as a worse t-34/76, and maybe at vet 3 it gets marginally better In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Commander Update Beta 2021 - OKW Feedback21 Apr 2021, 21:03 PM Jump back to quoted post21 Apr 2021, 20:58 PMSkysTheLimit 40 munitions? Why on earth would it be cheaper than most weapon upgrades? I can take you seriously if you would say 60 like most others upgrades. Id still disagree, but 40 is a joke It's 40 just for the sight and flare Because upgrades NECESSARY to make units function their intended role are free, see infiltration unit upgrades. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Commander Update Beta 2021 - OKW Feedback21 Apr 2021, 20:55 PM Jump back to quoted post21 Apr 2021, 20:44 PMSkysTheLimit It's only shitty if you build straight fusiliers and nothing else. If you mix them in with volks, your opening will be fine Building volks won't make panzerfusiliers cost 260 mp, or their upgrade cost 40 munitions, which is actually what they are worth. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Commander Update Beta 2021 - OKW Feedback21 Apr 2021, 20:53 PM Jump back to quoted post21 Apr 2021, 20:42 PMAlphrum regarding pfussies, thers 4 guys arguing with each other and i havent seen every post so correct me if im wrong. 2 of you are comparing pfussis to volks, and in that context pfussies are fine whuich i agree with (weaker then volks early but better late game) However, the moment you compare them to penals and RM, pfussies become not so good. Now the balance team have specifally compared them to volks and not allied inf, so they are balanaced agaisnt volks, not penals or riflemen. But pfussies do suck in the early game but idk how you can buff them without making them OP. and personally when it does come to pfussies vs allied inf, you really should be mixing obers with your pfussies to be able to effectively fight off allied inf, and i dont see a problem with that The essential issue is that Panzerfusiliers are 270 mp for a unit that performs like a 240 one, but they never get properly rewarded for this supposed inbalance like some forum warriors claim. They are never able to decently stand up against USF/UKF mainlines. They scale marginally better than volks, that cost less AND are also notoriously scaling horribly so it's a ridicolously low bar and far from anything special. Looking at their performances you could easily argue they are underwhelming for their cost in late game, even without considering that they are supposed to be better than their cost implies to make up for being so worse in early game. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Commander Update Beta 2021 - OKW Feedback21 Apr 2021, 20:40 PM Jump back to quoted post21 Apr 2021, 20:38 PMSkysTheLimit Why shouldn't they? Because they shouldn't? So that supposed extra power that should make up for shitty panzerfussi early game is just bullshit? In: COH2 Balance