if we only had had some kind of beta, let's say 6 months, in which we could'vetested the penals...DonnieChan defending the current state of penals? Why am i not surprised?
It's called precedence. They HAVE accepted changes from modders through their balance previews in the past; the only good news is that the current stuff were not part of those past changes.
That response is also not saying "we don't accept changes from mods", only they are not considering it at this time. Which, if you know your average politician or publisher, more often than not means they're not confirming it yet. As I have said before, relic will use any idea from anyone at this point as they are desperate. And there are not many balance mods on the workshop, or, there aren't many modders who declare themeselves as balance designers enjoying and using coh2.org as their publicity/exposure platform.
And yes, I think most of these changes are going live.
It's about COMPLAINING FIRST, hiding behind anonymity, not looking for self criticism and just blaming the game. We can say the same thing about the current balance "team". The very same guy who created the penal problem in the first place.
The difference being, they can now nerf any unit they cast the blame on.
That's not true, you'll see. Wait, are you denying this responce from kyle?
https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/244105/unofficial-balance-team-is-out-of-control#latest
Or do you have some insider info which Kyle is not granted access to?
^ Not a bad idea. It is a two-way sword
In my opinion, the future balance team should provide replays for each unit they deem imbalanced. Replays from both before their change applied and after that.
This way we can dilute any useless community feedback and walls of texts from all sides. So when a community member opposes and complains about the proposed change, he could be simply directed to the related replay.Is he raging about penals , for example? You cite the replay which was used as the basis of balance desicion.
GG TheMachine already did that once
https://www.coh2.org/replay/57873/piospam-not-so-op-relic-preview-v1-1-g3
So before uploading the mod they should provide;
At least one relplay, where the modder indicates the current performance problems, and why any nerfs/or buffs are needed.
A minimum of one replay against real equally skilled players, where the player proves that his suggested changes;
Improve the overall balance,
Does not render the unit useless or unattractive in any way
This is much more convincing than adding a few words like "we buffed it cause we felt like it" as the description for proposed changes.
Lol.
I dare you to name one nerf that can be called "devastating" or "paralyzing".
There you go;
OKW
Show Spoiler
MedHQ Forward Retreat Point
-Now gives a 33% resource penalty when active.
-Upgrade cost from 300MP to 100MP.
-60 second cooldown upon toggle.
Schwerer Panzer Headquarters (T4)
- Cost to deploy to 100/60: Starts with Jagdpanzer and Obers
Armored Assault Groups upgrade for 100/60 unlocks the Panzer IV and Panther. Must be re-researched if building is destroyed. Required for the King Tiger. Must be re-purchased if destroyed. KT requires the upgrade to be purchased only once to access after all trucks are deployed.
- Gun must be bought for 120 munitions. Can now be issued attack commands.
- Projectile no longer collides with terrain
Call-in requirements
- All OKW Call-ins receive a 25% price penalty to their MP and FU costs
- The price penalty is lifted when the âArmored Assault Groups upgradeâ from T4 is researched for the first time
Anti-aircraft performance
- The relative performance of OKW units vs air is as follows:
FlakHT = Flak emplacement >> FlakHQ
- The base flak emplacements no longer deal damage vs airplanes
OKW veterancy scaling changes
- Squads retain the majority of Vet1-Vet3 combat bonuses as is
- Vet4 and Vet5 passive combat bonuses have been replaced with abilities or conditional bonuses (e.g., requires in cover, or timed/targeted abilities)
- Veterancy levels have been reordered as follows:
- Vet1, Vet2 and Vet3 (old) become Vet1, Vet3 and Vet5 (new), with new Vet5 requiring same amount of XP as old Vet3
- The newly introduced abilities are placed as Vet2 and Vet4 bonuses
- This, essentially preserves the 5-vet bonuses of OKW, skipping out on uninspiring (but OP) raw unit stats
- At the same time, timely access to unique veterancy bonuses will help diversify the OKW roster a bit, making unit composition choices more meaningful
Thus, for most OKW units, Veterancy looks as follows:
Weapon Team Crews
- Use weapon crew Kar98k rather than Volksgrenadier Kar98k
- Reinforcement cost decreased to 22
- Received accuracy normalized (MG/LeiG: 1.25; Raketen: 1)
OKW starting unit
OKW now begins the match with:
- A kubelwagen
- 380MP starting manpower
Volksgrenadier
- Vet2 bonus: increased sight in garrisons or cover
- Vet4 bonus: Medical kits heals at 2HP/sec passively
- Vet5 (old Vet3) RA improved from 0.9 to 0.86
- Faust from 30 to 25 munitions.
- Added a 0.375 fuse time to flame grenades
Sturmpioneers
- Concussion grenade moved to vet 1. Construction bonus at vet 3 moved to 1.2
- Population from 9 to 8
- Repair rate from 3 to 2.
- Veterancy 2 Repair reduced to 0.6 from 1.
- Panzerschreck cost from 90 to 65. Now Provides smoke grenades and no longer requires a truck to be deployed.
- Flamethrower upgrade also provides access to smoke grenades
- Reinforce time from 10 to 7. Build-time from 40 to 28 seconds.
- Weapon accuracy at vet 4 to 1.35 from 1.15.
- Combat bonuses at vet 5 removed.
- Veterancy rate gain to 580/820/1060/1640/2120 from 640/960/1280/1920/2560
Veterancy:
- Vet1: Concussion grenade
- Vet2: +20% construction bonus
- Vet3: +0.6 repair speed bonus (down from +1), -30% weapon cooldown, -23% received accuracy
- Vet4: No longer received damage while repairing
- Vet5: -23% received accuracy, +35% accuracy
Raketenwerfer
- Can no longer be suppressed
- Moves at full speed if detected while cloak ability is active (QoL)
- Accuracy increased from 0.06/0.05/0.04 to 0.06/0.0516665/0.043333 (to match other AT guns)
Veterancy:
Vet1: increases speed while stealthed by 25%
Vet2: gains +7 sight when in cover or garrisons
Vet3: -25% reload, +25% penetration
Vet4: +25% damage +15% accuracy when attacking from stealth
Vet5: Increase rotation by 15% and range by 5+
Kubelwagen
We have added a cloak ability to the Kubelwagen to help the unit's scouting role and incentivize its re-purchase later in the game. This coincides with the Siphon changes which will make the Kubelwagen more difficult to locate as it steals resources.
- Now has access to Camouflage toggle ability. Kubel moves at an extremely slow pace but becomes cloaked. Kubel is detected if units are 15m from the vehicle. Disables Detection.
-Siphon Range to 30.
- Kubel can now siphon points, reducing pointâs resource incoming and returning it to the player
- Armour from 4.5 to 2.5
- Rear Armour from 4.5 to 2.25
- Hitpoints from 190 to 210
- Population from 4 to 2
- Moving burst to 0.75 from 0.1. Moving cooldown from 0.125 to 0.675
- Detection ability now halts the Kubelâs movement
- Cannot toggle the Detection ability faster than 5 seconds
- Now gains shared XP
- Reshuffled Kubelwagen veterancy as follows: 1, 3, 2, 5, 4
MG-34
- Population from 4 to 6
- Vet2 bonus: AP rounds ability increase range by +5 for their duration
- Vet4 bonus: Sight increased by +7 when in-cover or garrisons
LE.ig
Revamped to act as a support gun:
- Mini-assault gun when auto-attacking
- High-angle attacks when barraging
- Auto-fire reload from 6.5-7.1 to 4.25
- Fixed an issue where hold-fire wasnât working
- Penetration reduced from 75 to 35
- Cost from 330 to 280
- Crew size from 1.15 to 1
- Population from 9 to 8
- 1.75 Ready-aim time on barrages to prevent the ability to double-up on rounds
- Auto-fire range from 100 to 70
- Barrage range to 85, cooldown increased from 30 seconds to 40 seconds.
- Number of shells fired in barrage: from 4/8 (vet0/vet4) to 3/6.
- Smoke barrage available. 4 rounds, 30 secs cooldown; cooldown independent from other abilities
-Firing cone from 20 to 5
Attack stats
- AOE distances from 0.75/1.5/2.25 to 0.75/1.75/3
- AOE to 3.5 from 3.
- Now uses mortar profiles vs buildings. (Deals more damage to ambient structures)
- Scatter from 6 to 6.75.
- Weapon horizontal speed from 3 to 8
Hollow Charge Rounds
- Unlocked at Vet1; improved at Vet4
- Accurate, direct-fire attack that can only target armour for 120 damage.
- 15 munitions, 45 sec cooldown.
- Range 60, 10 minimum.
- Ready aim time of 1.5
Veterancy:
- Vet1 unlocks Hollow charge Rounds
- Vet2 increases number of shells for the barrage to 6.
- Vet3 provides 0.85 reload speed on all weapons and abilities. +25% range on smoke
- Vet4 allows the LE.ig to fire 2 Hollow Charge rounds during the ability.
- Vet5 provides 25% range on all barrages and reduces all ability cooldowns by 33%.
FlakHT
- Population from 7 to 6
- Reduced accuracy vs vehicles (to counterbalance high base accuracy used to fight infantry)
- Projectile no longer collides with terrain
- Vet2 bonus: Old Vet5
- Vet4 bonus: Old Vet4
Luchs
- Increased scatter penalties from 1.25 to 2 to match other AI tanks
- Increased moving accuracy modifier at vet0 from 0.3 to 0.4
- Population popcap reduced from 8 to 6
- Reduced accuracy vs vehicles (to counterbalance high base accuracy used to fight infantry)
-Moves at full speed if detected while cloak ability is active (QoL)
- Vet2 bonus: Suppressive fire (old Vet5 ability)
- Vet 4 bonus: 1.4 accuracy, 1.15 acceleration and rotation for 5 seconds when attacking from stealth
Puma
- Reduced MG incremental accuracy multiplier from 1.12 to 1
- Population popcap reduced from 8 to 7
- Added a delay to smoke deployment (0.75 seconds)
- Smoke duration increased from 10 seconds to 15 seconds
- Vet2 bonus: Old vet5 bonus, but with range reduced from 70 to 25
- Vet4 bonus: Old vet4 bonus
Walking Stuka
- Health from 320 to 160
- Cost from 390/100 to 360/85
- Build-time from 60 to 45.
- Population from 14 to 12
- AoE distance changed from 2/4/6 to 0.5/5.5/7 (to give more consistent results)
- AoE damage far increased from 0.05 to 0.1
- Added scatter to stuka barrage (mortar)
- Added actual penalties for firing in the FoW
- Reduced damage vs buildings
- Vet2 bonus: âSaturation Fireâ ability. Allows the Stuka to attack in a circle rather than a line.
- Vet4 bonus: old Vet5 bonus
- Fixed a bug where the MG gunner could get killed by small arms fire
Incendiary Rocket barrage
- Available at Vet0
- Cost from 100 to 40
- Cooldown reduced from 150 to 120 (to match HE barrage)
- Shares cooldown with HE barrage
- Dot damage normalized with other flame weapons
Obersoldaten
- Cost from 400 to 340
- Population from 10 to 9
- Upgrades from 60 to 80 munitions (both LMG and STG)
- Reinforce time to 9 from 12.5. Build time to 36 from 50.
- Vet2 bonus: Timed ability that causes suppression at the cost of damage
- Vet4 bonus: Old Vet5 bonus
- Adjusted cost of grenade to 40 (to match PGren)
Fallschirmjäger
- Have stationary pathfinder-like camouflage at Vet 0
- Population from 8 to 9
- Call-in manpower cost reduced from 440 to 340
- Received Accuracy from 0.87 to 0.83
- Vet3 RA from 0.71 to 0.77
- Vet5 changed to 1.3 accuracy and +5 range.
- Vet2 bonus: Passive medical kits
- Vet4 bonus: Panzerfaust gains +5 range and +20 damage
Infiltration mechanic:
- Infiltration Fallschirmjager must purchase FG42 battle rifles. Free, but requires 45 seconds before the upgrade completes
- Grenades/Faust require the FG42 battle rifles to be available
- This does not affect airborne-assault Fallschirmjagers (parachutters); i.e, parachuters arrive combat-ready
Jaeger Light Infantry
- Have stationary pathfinder-like camouflage at Vet 0
- Must purchase G43 Sniper Rifle. Free, but requires 30 seconds before the upgrade completes.
- Reinforcement cost down to 32MP
- Vet2 bonus: +50% accuracy when firing from stealth
- Vet4 bonus: Passive medical kits
Panzerfusiliers
- Population from 6 to 7
- Vet2 bonus: 1.15 capture and decapture rate.
- Vet4 bonus: Passive Sprint
- Flare cost reduced from 45MU to 30MU
- Sight range bonus from upgrade reduced from +50% to +28% (50 to 45)
Terror Officer
- Officer reinforce from 50 to 35.
- Officer reinforce time from 16 to 7
- Aura no longer affects teammates
Panzer IV
- Scatter improved from 7.5/6.4 (angle/distance) to 6.5/5.54
- Vet3 scatter veterancy changed from 0.75 to 0.866
- Vet2 bonus: replaced with Steady Advance ability
- Vet4 bonus: Improved Combat Blitz
- Cost to 380/140 from 360/150
- Population from 12 to 14
Combat Blitz
- 0.75 RA, 1.25 Accuracy, 1.35 speed.
- Vet4 awards an extra 0.92 scatter and 1.1 accuracy
Steady Advance
- Reload speed reduced to by 25%
- Cooldown decreased by 25%
- Speed is reduced by 50%
- Horizontal traverse is reduced by 65%
- +25% more accuracy and -10% scatter when moving for all weapons
- Mutually exclusive with Combat Blitz
Ostwind
- Combat Blitz stats revamped (refer to P4)
- Vet2 bonus: Steady Advance (refer to P4)
- Vet4 bonus: Improved Combat Blitz (refer to P4)
Jagdpanzer
- Now detectable at range 20 (up from 10) to be on par with Luchs
- Vet3: 1.35 sight bonus changed to 1.2 accuracy. Armour bonus removed.
- Vet5 reload from 0.9 to 0.85
- Vet2 bonus: toggled âVehicle Detectionâ. Detects vehicles in 60, but Jagdpanzer becomes immobile. Can still rotate at -75% reduced rate.
- Vet4 bonus: damage/penetration/accuracy increased by 25% when firing from stealth
Panther
- Combat Blitz bonuses changed (refer to King Tiger)
- Population from 16 to 18
- Moving scatter from 1.7 to 2 (to match other tanks)
- Moving accuracy from 0.65 to 5 (to match other tanks)
- Mid accuracy increased to revamp-mod OST Panther
- Vet3 armor bonus removed (old Vet2)
- Vet2 bonus: provides +10 sight when stationary after 5 seconds.
- Vet4 bonus: Improves Combat Blitz
- Cost from 490/200 to 510/185.
Command Panther
- Population from 18 to 20
- Aura no longer affects teammates
- Mid accuracy increased to revamp-mod OST Panther
- No longer mutually-exclusive with the King Tiger
- Combat Blitz bonuses changed (refer to King Tiger)
- Vet 4 Improves Combat Blitz
- Removed armour bonus from veterancy (retains health bonus)
- No other changes to veterancy (Command Panther Vet1-5 remains identical to live-version)
King Tiger
- AOE on 88mm weapons from 1/0.35/0.05 to 0.66/0.25/0.05
- AOE far distance from 3 to 4
- Population from 21 to 23
- Scatter to Tiger values
- Veterancy Revamped
- Combat Blitz ability revamped
- Cost from 720/280 to 720/260
- Now buildable at T0 (to avoid picking commanders)
Veterancy:
- Vet1 Unlocks Combat Blitz (revamped)
- Vet2: Unlocks spearhead mod (fixed a bug with spearhead)
- Vet3: -20% scatter, +30% weapon rotation speed, +20% accuracy
- Vet4: Improves Combat Blitz
- Vet5: -20% reload, +30% ac/de-celeration
Panther/King Tiger Combat Blitz:
- 0.8 Received Accuracy, 1.25 accuracy, 1.15 speed
- Vet 5 provides an additional 0.8 Received Accuracy, 1.1 accuracy and 1.1 speed
Jagdtiger
- Fuel cost from 280 to 260
- Damage decreased from 320 to 280
- Accuracy decreased to Elefant levels
- Range decreased from 85 to 78
- Population from 21 to 24
- Supporting FIre now available at Vet0
- Vet1 increases Supporting Fire rounds from 3 to 5
- Vet2 bonus: increases Supporting Fire range by 33%
- Vet4 bonus: Unlocks piercing rounds ability (previously a Vet0 ability)
Mobility:
- Jagdtiger can now be dazed once again on penetration from rear shots
- Removed rotation bonus from Engine Improvements upgrade
Supporting Fire
- Supporting FIre now available at Vet0
- Supporting FIre barrage no longer collides with terrain
- Supporting Fire range reduced from 125 to 85
- Vet1 increases Supporting Fire rounds from 3 to 5
- Veterancy 4 increases Supporting Fire range by 33%
- Jagdtiger Supporting Fire scatter from 6 to 8. Distance Scatter Max from 8.4 to 10
- Supporting FIre mid AOE from 2.25 to 1.5
Sturmtiger
- Cost increased from 560MP/160FU to 600MP/190FU
- Population from 18 to 21
- Main attack no longer pierces through obstacles
- Grenade damage increased to Churchill levels
- Veterancy requirements significantly reduced
- Swapped Vet2 with Vet3
Flame Hetzer
- Population from 12 to 10
- Minimum range removed. Range from 32 to 35.
- Damage from 10 to 12.
- Burst from 1/2 to 3
- Veterancy 1 provides âCrew Repairâ. Halts weapons and movement for 15 seconds. 30 munitions.
- Vet1 burst modifier to Vet3
- Vet5: also increases range by +5
- Vet2 bonus: provides access to the âAssaultâ ability
- Vet4 bonus: +7 sight
- Veterancy 1 burst modifier to veterancy 2.
âAssaultâ ability:
- Grants -25% cooldown and reload on the flamethrower.
- Machine gun gains -40% cooldown and suppression.
- 40 munitions
- 15 seconds.
10.5cm LefH (WIP)
- Cost changed from 600MP to 400MP/50FU
- Veterancy 1-3 standardized with the Ostheer variant
- Unlocks 10.5cm Rapid Barrage at veterancy 4. 45 second cooldown. Fires 3 shells with minimal reload time between each round.
Pak43
- Cost changed from 500MP to 375MP/40FU
Panzer Commander
- Grants +10 sight to the vehicle from 6.
- Coordinated Barrage range from 35 to 45.
- Coordinated Barrage delay from 5 to 0. (It takes 10+ seconds to drop)
- Coordinated Barrage cost from 120 to 60.
Emergency Crew Repairs
- Heals 20% faster
- No longer inflicts a munitions-income penalty on the player
- Cost from 50 to 35
Infiltration Grenades
- Cost from 15 to 25
- Non-volk squads (e.g., Obers, JLI) fire their grenades faster
- Infiltration grenades no longer enter cooldown unless they have actually been discharged
Flak Emplacement
- Weapon is now a copy-paste of FlakHT
- Projectile no longer collides with terrain
- Popcap from 4 to 2
- Hitpoints from 470 to 520
- Crew have a received accuracy modifier of 0.1
Flak Emplacement base
- Non-decrewable
- Min-range removed
- Projectile no longer collides with terrain
- Target size increased from 2 to 20
- Can no longer damage aircraft
Artillery flares
- MU cost from 60MU to 90MU. (Flares canât be shot down)
Recon overflight
- Cost from 35 to 50
Volksgrenadier field defenses
- Minelaying speed decreased by half
Goliaths
- Sight range down to 5
- Cost from 100MU to 70MU
- Now deals same damage as (EFA revamp) demos
@OP; Really GJ for your persistence. Talking to these people is certainly exhausting.
When people refuse to show their playercard or replays of their game, that's a huge sign that the problems they might be facing are not due to balance but rather their own skill set.
In a similar way, solution to problems might not be feasible depending on the skillbracket.
Ex: kitting penals PTRS with light vehicle/tanks. This is something i would generally say, but if i'm advising someone at the 1000/2000 or even lower ranks, i would suggest other approaches.
Same if i tell anyone to use a sniper. At those levels i'll rather tell them to get another unit cause microing a sniper takes the few APM they have in a single unit they might not take full profit out of it.
Kiting is ok. But not against a unit with such a silly AT-Nade. And you don't even play the game anymore, yet you scorn people with low ranks?
Nope, I'm asking you for your playercard (something that shows me that your current ranks are in automatch) because i think you are falling victim to penals due to a lack of skill.
Note: I mean no offense.
Meaning; "I failed to defend my argument and prove the viability of my proposed pro strat, hence I am blaming your person to cover it up"
Playercard please. So you admit your argument was silly? That is what your post implies, proved you wrong.