Since your post is going to get invised anyway, ill take this chance to also speak candidly...
Calm the fuck down lol, no need to personally attack him or act that rude
Easy for you to say, he isn't attacking you on every single thread and being a douche towards you.
Me: "I think the case is A".
Esxile: "Omg you're a retard lol go fk yourself"
Anyone else: "I think the case is A"
Esxile: "I agree with your points"
Endured this dozens of times from this same guy, and me "acting that rude" is obviously in proportion to his behaviour towards me. |
And create a similar issue on late game. There isn't a ober-like infantry squad on USF stock roaster to carry them after 20 minutes.
There is a simplest solution, just make riflemen 280 manpower squad value their price from the moment they hit the field, and not a-like 260 manpower squad value that need 120 munition investment + vet3 to finally match their price.
I disagree with you here. Elite anti-infantry specialists only buildable from 12 to 15 mins onwards being able to counter mainline 260mp infantry shouldn't be seen as a problem.
Basically what you want is Riflemen to be way too good - infantry that scales perfectly and has no weaknesses at any point in the game. Their current late game stats would be completely unacceptable for a 260mp unit.
Riflemen are designed right now to start off very weak, become decent, and become super powerful late game. Volks are good early game and have an STG power-spike in midgame, but are mediocre late game. The asymmetry in when they get their power boosts is problematic for the USF vs OKW matchup, but making Riflemen overly cost-effective is only going to swing things the other way with USF becoming too overpowering in infantry engagements.
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If usf and okw both try to get their AA HT out, and usf also want to get BARs and grenades, with okw and usf med and lieutenant costing right about the same and the AAHT costing damn close too... Who pays more to have grenades, weapons and the squads to carry them and their vehicle?
One could argue that part of the higher cost on okw teching comes from the ability to place it anywhere, and the fact that their final tech is a 360 bunker that can also shoot down planes. Usf obviously has their own boons, but they are constantly paid for via mp tax as well
Volks have no right being as good as they are given the price paid for then and lack of investment needed to bring them to full potential. Outside their kit they have some of the most complete support availible. They are guaranteed to have access to an MG and AT as well as an early game shock squad and late game they have access to one of the best AI squads in the game.
Side note, why is their "tax" unlocked abilities better than cons specifically bought abilities? Not arguing WHY they have a file nade, but why is it so much better than the molitov? Why does it have longer range and throw faster on a squad that can also get a weapon upgrade AND have it just given to them? That's the kind of blatant overstepping that makes volks so good. All the benifits of stuff with none of the balancing drawbacks.
As usual, you've neglected the fact that frags are better than flame nades for anyone not in top 50, and that USF nade package comes with smoke, and that USF doesn't even need nades since they already win the infantry game handily if they've LT + BAR tech.
You also conveniently ignored the fact that the problem with USF vs OKW is having to defend early aggression into Luchs - going LT vs OKW means you were already holding your own and you're ready to begin your mid-game snowball over your opponent. The problems in the matchup arise from Sturmpio early dominance and USF Riflemen design rather than Volks themselves. Riflemen becoming 260/26 in exchange for tuning down their uber-veterancy would address the early game issue. Riflemen are the problem, not Volks. If Volks got unfairly nerfed, then OKW would be even more helpless vs Soviets and Brits. Tommies wreck Volks, but not having a snare, having no anti-garrison, and having no mobile indirect fire are hamstringing the faction overall. Basically USF and UKF suck, but the reason isn't Volks.
The downside of OKW base buildings is their extreme vulnerability when setting up and their significantly worse health/armour compared to standard base buildings. One-click off map abilities can destroy a full health OKW T4 - no other faction has that weakness. Every other faction has permanent tech - and that is itself the trade-off for the Schwer HQ. And as already mentioned, OKW pays more than any other faction for teching. USF/UKF can actually choose to invest in side-grades or to actually rush for tech. If you're ahead as USF or UKF, you can actually rush for a Sherman or a Centaur. The OKW P4 is definitely the best stock medium of the 5 factions, but the amount of fuel needed to get there is by far the largest. Many players forget that OKW starts with -10 fuel and the trucks are extremely expensive at 100/15 X2 or X3. Since your mechanised or battlegroup is almost never going to be outside the base sector, the 100/15 "tax" simply doesn't make sense based on your argument.
Getting a free Rifleman squad with a BAR and a Thompson is paid for via an "mp tax". The MP bleed you inflict on the enemy by having a superior squad as well as the additional territory more than make up for that reduced MP income. I'm sure no one in their right minds thinks of the free squads as "mp upkeep" - since they're clearly a massive bonus to field presence. |
Another random thought: would buffing the HP of 1040 heavy tanks to 1060 HP be too much ?
This would put it outside of range of 160 dmg + snare.
Pretty good idea. 7th shot still kills them regardless. |
A lot of people have said this, but I struggle to see how. Volks are 250, rifles are 280, IS are 280, cons are 240, penals are 300.
Vanilla volks vs vanilla rifles are about equal at max range, and strongly favor rifles at close range. The margin to which rifles are favored probably justifies the extra 30 squad cost and 3 reinforce cost. 1 bar rifles beats stg volks (280/60 vs 250/60). Rifles also have stronger vet.
Vanilla IS vs vanilla volks favors volks at mid and close with or without cover, slightly favors volks max without cover, and favors IS max with cover. 5-man IS beat stg volks everywhere except close, which only gets better for IS when they get brens. Again, the extra cost for IS makes sense to me considering how much better their scaling is.
Cons are utility and super durable with vet. They're also clearly the worst mainline infantry when it comes to combat. Volks are better than them in combat, which doesn't say much considering every other squad is too. If they have ppshs though, they're probably better than volks in general.
Penals are more or less 6 man volks when it comes to combat power. Their insane vet means they don't have to spend munitions and still scale well.
I just don't see in which comparison volks punch above their weight (besides non-ppsh-doc cons, which again doesn't say much).
You are a top 20 player who plays all factions and makes arguments based on statistical realities.
Obviously you have no credibility whatsoever in these forums. I'm only going to listen to players who are ranked 2000+ or have been inactive from the game for at least 2 years. At the very least you should only be playing one faction.
In any case, just because Riflemen have significantly better veterancy bonuses in terms of ingame statistics, doesn't mean they actually do. There is so much you haven't considered, like the fact that Volks are OP.
Please leave the balance debates to the real professionals. |
Meanwhile, Talisman and other top players, along with most of the top 100 players use the IS2. Should we take the word of a rank 5000+ player who insists on the delusion that the IS2 is bad?
Imagine Guard Motor or Guard Rifle trading the t34-85 or KV1 for an IS2 call-in. We'd see Soviets lock that doctrine in after 2 seconds, and probably a 75% Soviet win rate with every game being Guards into T70 into IS2.
Seriously, the only reason the IS2 isn't a top-pick is because Guards are bread-and-butter for Sovs, and Spec Ops is pretty meta/OP. Armoured Assault would be the top commander choice if we nerfed Guards significantly. |
Not sure how you arrived at this conclusion, does this include the other members dps with rifles?
Here are the numbers from the Cruzzie files for the upgrades:
USF Riflemen BAR (60 muni each)
DPS: 13.2 / 6.5 / 4
dists: 5 / 14 / 35
Volks gren mp44, single (30 muni each)
DPS: 7.52 / 4.5 / 2.0
dists: 7 / 23 / 35
Note that the BAR has a very short mid range, making it only really effective at closer ranges.
The double stg44 is clearly better at medium and close range, while having a better effective range than the BAR. The stg44 upgrade is the more cost effective upgrade than the BAR but USF has the option to double equip.
Edit: forgot to mention rifles not included.
It's weird that people don't realise that weapon upgrades are weapon upgrades.
The STGs remove 2 rifles, so the incremental dps of the squad is accounted for by +2 stgs -2 KAR98s. The BAR only replaces 1 Garand, so a BAR vs STG comparison is flawed - it has to be a squad vs squad comparison. Statistically a Rifle squad with a BAR is superior to a Volks squad with STGs, just as an unupgraded Rifle squad has greater dps at mid and close range than a vanilla Volks squad. |
It sucks worse as USF. The .50 is a terrible MG, its so hilarious to hear people try to justify its tech and cost (and it's usually people with some kind of WWII German themed avatar or screen name).
Yes, high damage, good suppression, lightning fast setup and tear-down time indeed make the 50 cal a terrible hmg. That's why I always rush LT when I play USF - so that I can build the m20 and not the 50 cal. |
Havent played around with axis admittedly!! so i wasnt sure about the prices but somehow I remember ostheer one being that?? but well 120 while t-34/85 is 130 just makes it worse with the veterancy to be honest...and all the other buffs. Im mainly wondering why they get all of these goodies while also not struggling early game? ??
Distro seems like a toxic poster but ill just say it is a BAD DESIGN!!. Blitzkrieg is blitzkrieg! what kind of blitzkrieg goes backwards?? And its a speed boost! it turns them to rally cars and let you get out of trouble super easily while as allied t-34 u would have to carefully think how to play that same scenarion because u cant just push the panic speed boost and revert back! and also SURELY U KNOW snares dont cause engine damage unless at certain HP %? AND UKF GETS NO SNARES except Tommie HEAT... soviet snares a sidetech. (engine damage ones, not button) unless u go penals but again SUPER LONG TIMER so u have time to just blitz out !!! U make no sense, do u even play as allied yourself? https://youtu.be/kYCNh3S251E?t=1398 Look at this video. High tier gamepaly and it highlights the issue SO WELL...0 micro for pz iv and then just blitz out while getting vet..and this is a good design x3 also vets vet 2 in the process
You do realise T34-85 is vastly superior to the Ost P4, right? Especially when it's a head-to-head matchup, the chance of a p4 winning is in single digit percentage chance since the P4 has less health and far lower penetration values at all ranges. |
It doesn't work for the vehicles already implemented AT ALL. Feel free to pick an Ostwind and place cons behijd a stone wall and test by yourself how wall soak tons of shots
Fun fact: the supposed no hit "ground or object" magic trick has already been implemented for raketen (i know it is depressing)
From changelog:
Raketenwerfer
The Raketenwerfer has been adjusted to be less potent at veterancy, but more reliable and more difficult to lockdown by HMGs.
Projectile no longer collides with terrain
"No longer collides with terrain". Except for ground/dirt, grass, bushes, trees, fences, branches, dead cows, tractors/cars, and other small wrecks. Just raketen things. |