They kinda lack strength because of how the design is and how poor their later game units are, especially heavier vehicles. You are fighting and uphill battle most of the time as soviets in 3v3. The map design doesn't help this either but thats another thing. Team games also have too much fuel float especially with fuel caches for Axis. And as I already stated ISU dps is pretty pathetic and the accuracy leaves something to desire for.It's an assault gun okay fair enough not a dedicated TD, however it doesn't do either that good. Katyusha is pretty inaccurate unless you drive it minimum range and they nerfed the barrage time last patch? I think. Guards I have no problem with or cons per se, but soviets do leave you with a bitter taste in your mouth most of the time and later on you won't have the power to fight on unless you really dominated whole map early-mid game and preserved ur units well. Which is stupid, and in team games OKW/OST early game really isn't that weak either. And since t1 is meta it kinda just makes u wonder..why play cheap version of USF when I can go USF and lock in airborne with rocket strike and far better t4/best mainline infantry?
I am aware and its what makes it awful. And because so many of soviets equipment was nerfed due to axis outcry (cough maxims) its just sad really. OKW early isnt that big of an issue because penals still hold their own. However keep in mind ostheer and okw synergize far far better with each other than any allied factions. I don't play 4v4 but 3v3 though but still.
Ah yes, the tank with IS-2 armor, more hp, Far better gun against AT and with a wiping capability is bad. I'd love if my fireflies didnt bounce mid range from it over half the time. Compare it to a DOCTRINAL 1 LIMIT IS-2 and say that again. IS-2 might cost less but it is awful even for its cost with awful veterancy and in general. Damage on AT is pathetic and GL hitting infantry . I'd rather have a KT even with it's higher cost than IS-2 any day thanks, wanna swap?
If we're talking 1v1s, yes, I'd love to swap  OKW Mechanised into IS2 call-in would be beastly.
In team games, there's indeed an argument for the KT being better. |
I shouldn't have intervened here, it's not my duty to do that, but i find it ridiculous that you accuse each other for being biased over his prefered faction.
All i have to say is that since i joined here, all i see is people who main Axis to propose nerf ideas for Allies, but when Allies propose an idea (a logical idea so that you won't confuse it), you all turn it down because "Allies are op!!11!1!1!". I saw it in the thread about the Jackson, i saw it in the thread about your beloved King Tiger, i saw it in the thread about the "USF free squads", i see it in EVERY thread every day. You are all ridiculous, that's what i have to say
So you're claiming that the Allied fanbois give logical suggestions and Axis fanbois are unreasonable and ridiculous. Even though most of the threads crying/whining about balance are started by Allied fanbois.
What a totally fair and unbiased evaluation you're making. |
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The topic is Sturmpios are too "fast to deploy". Does that refer to their building time? Should we give Sturms 90 seconds build time then? |
I don't know why you keep focusing on this, the problem isn't that OKW beat USF for the 5 first minutes, it is that USF is design to beat their opponent during that time or they lose. USF isn't design to perform comeback unlike Ostheer is. USF late game superior to OKW late game is a myth, the only reason people think so is because of skill gap between players on matchmaking. A same match with a more balanced factions would see the USF player wins the same game faster.
OKW being superior to USF early game is fine if USF is given all the tools to come back, and not one tool or another aka T1 suppression or T2 AT options, but both of them on each tier and being less commander depend as Ostheer also is.
And since it is not likely to happen because of USF/OS matchup, OKW early game has to be tone down.
There is a need of a logic behind the design, if you design a faction around gaps and strong decision making (T1 vs T2) as USF is today in exchange of early domination, you can't suddenly take it away and say "it's fine, they can still comeback"...
And don't get me wrong, nobody is even talking about having USF early game superior to OKW, but a more balanced situation, a 50|50 where the best player takes the lead of the game.
USF late game is vastly superior to the OKW late game in 1v1 games. Rifles have double the RA bonuses of Volks and vastly superior dps with double BARs, which also have a small moving acc penalty. Obers and P4s are the only counter to USF infantry dominance, but USF also happens to have the best tank destroyer in the game and the best heavy tank in the game with Heavy Cav.
USF lacking rocket artillery is really a problem vs PAK walls and mg42s, but my USF experiences with OKW have always been "he kills me with early game into LVs or I overrun him mid to late game" |
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A Kubel as starting unit would be atrocious. Volks as a starting unit would be a more reasonable compromise. Otherwise reworking the SP to become cheaper but less effective in combat could also work. |
Are you talking about Elite n Windustry or you are talking about the CE commanders ? Collectors edition was a joke cause buying the game day 1 would give you the same benefits bar not getting the 2nd ToW DLC. Still vanilla commanders were good for 1v1 and it was mostly on teamgames were you could get an edge. I mean, Shock Rifle, Assault Support, Guard Motor, Elefant/ISU, etc. Perhaps ISU+Guards for Soviets. OH did have better alternatives with Spearhead and Joint Ops.
Hmmm i would argue UKF right now is in an even lower standard than the lowest state of any faction had been, cause at least certain factions were handicapped only by match up or mode.
Say USF is steamrolling on 1v1 against OH, you could still use OH on 2v2+ while at the same time USF was not as good as you keep adding players to the game. OKW was bonkers but kept in checked on 1v1, mostly to maxim spam.
Right now, i don't think you have much reason to play them on either 1v1 or 2v2+. If your opinion is that OKW had it bad anytime, think about what would happen if you made the OKW rework and you didn't gave them a lava nade and panzerfaust after removing the gimmickies.
My point was that Brits are really bad now, and most factions have had their time in the sewer. Balance patches tend to be cyclical in nature. It's also hard to discuss across various game modes so I'd mostly focus on 1v1 and 2v2 as the basis for balance.
If you think OKW wasn't utterly unplayable during that era, you're probably too biased to reason with.
OKW was using pre-buff raketens, ISGs, P4s, Luchs, Flak HT, sturmpios didn't have medkits until Vet 1, and volks had no fausts until tech structure was fully built.
At that time it was facing pre-nerf Allied infantry (even higher vet bonuses, flamer penals, double LMG rifles) pre-nerf Allied LVs (everything was a t70 but some of them had stun shots), and an Armour Company/Lend Lease meta. Zooks had ridiculous xp gain, every riflemen squad had smoke, while the USF mortar was an ultra-overperforming Ost mortar.
During that era if you went Scavenge for the only decent OKW AI tank, m10 and m4cs come out at the same time, and you don't get Command Panther to counter enemy armour. Both choices mean you can't get Pfusiliers, which were vastly superior to volks and the best way to hold off Allied infantry superiority.
It was a lose-lose-lose situation for OKW, and my USF managed to beat high ranked OKW players that I have never beaten since that era. |
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Brits certainly are terrible now, but almost every faction has had its time where the faction was unplayable trash and its time when the faction was ridiculously overpowered.
For example, OKW had its time when it was unplayable - 60 fuel mechanised and 70 or 75 fuel Luchs, while Penals had flamers, Rifles had double LMGs, Volks didn't have panzerfaust until 8mins in, and all Allied LVs were at least as strong as the current T70. P4s were also 150 fuel, had worse pen, and far worse scatter. Of course, Allied fanbois were happy with the free wins they got back in that era but conveniently wiped that period out of the coh2 history books now that OKW is strong again.
Funnily enough most of these players complaining now didn't make a sound when Brits had countless nonsensically OP units. Old Trenches, Terminator Tommies, Instant-wipe Centaur, Screen-wipe Land Mattress, Old Crocodile, UC that was immune to small arms fire, Mortar Pits that could be built in your base and could still cover the whole map, Crushwell, Comet which was basically Panther with AI capabilities, 240 dmg Firefly with uber Rockets.
Yeah definitely agreed that Brits suck now. I still play them and they're terrible. But it's better than having them being utterly cancerous. They're bound to get fixed eventually - it's just the cycle of coh2 life.
It's a pity Relic interprets "unique factions" as "lacking basic gameplay tools". Snares, mines, flamers, sandbags, and mobile light artillery are all essential gameplay tools and it's bewildering how denying them is supposed to make the game more fun and interesting. |
lol, kid.''no u''. IS2 is only effective against armor. it's USELESS agianst infantry but your blind eyes can't see that. i said it could use an approach towards the accuracy and scater damage of the tiger. NOT JUST COPY THE THING. i refer to the tiger cause i think the tiger is pretty balanced. it doesn't have that wipe ability the pershing does. this tank is a heavy tank and cost you alot. you wanne use it like a more armored su85. well that's your problem. this should be a versatile unit. maybe not as good as pershing or tiger vs inf but atleast a litle decent. pls stop with that 'no-weakness' bs. it's not like we have a 2k17 crocodile here wich just needed some AT to win the game. oh wait even that had it weakness.
Yeah whatever dude. Your head is so far up your own ass that even if the IS2 had the exact same stats as the Tiger you would scream "buff IS2". Nvm that until the recent patch, the Tiger was slower than the IS2. But if IS2 became similar to the Tiger you would cry about the IS2 having weaker armour (like the Tiger). The Tiger also has a significantly smaller one-hit-kill AOE radius, which is why it has much better scatter. Yeah, but logic doesn't work on you.
Basically you want an unfairly overpowered Tiger with the same cost but much better armour and a larger instant-kill aoe.
Fixes that would be reasonable: revamping the IS2 commanders to be more useable
Fixes that you want: Making the IS2 grossly overpowered and the best tank in the game by an overwhelming margin. |
kv1 with a better gun? it keeps missing! you could say it's just a more armoured version of the kv1. i bet you the kv1 has better accuracy then that dip shit. something like a pak43 and so on and on and on is AT. stop bs'ing. i'm not gonne be writing down all fucking sorts of AT that can pen an is2. you know every tank has it weakness. oh and cause the tiger has alot of none doc counters we don't buff the IS2 cause everybody is to stupid to use commander efficiantly. it's not only a pak43 wich can pen an IS2, i've seen a simple pak40 a stug, panther and so on penetrate. you're acting like the IS2 is a tank destroyer, but sorry to say, it's a HEAVY tank. you say you wanne use it as a unit you can push with, while you litterly said before, that if it had offensive capabilities it would be OP...
buffing accuracy and scatter just a litle wont make it OP. unless you wanne buff it to the point of a pershing wich would ofcourse be OP. every heavy tank in this game has the power to fight both tanks and infantry. this is the one i see struggling at infantry and sometimes tanks cause of its accuracy. this tank is ment to be an all around tank. a bit like crommwel and such.
btw could you write a litle less, i mean shiet. i'm trying to avoid wasting to much time on this, cause this isn't gonne make us get a new patch for IS2 anyways
You're the one bs-ing, dude. I've already demonstrated countless times that the IS2 has a lot of strengths. Removing its only weakness would make it overpowered, unless you nerf the strengths as well. What you're asking for is basically a 375 armour Tiger. You keep insisting on making it a perfect, no-weakness unit because you can't understand simple English.
In fact, you may be too stupid to read but I've pointed out many times that the IS2 itself is already very good. The "problem" is that it's in Commanders that are either bad or have no infantry presence, which is why it's difficult to win with an IS2 alone - again, something that you're expecting it to do. |
No one saying that IS-2 must be soviet verison of Pershing without flaws. IS-2 must be soviet KT with the same weaknesses and strong sides - slow and high cost unit, but powerfull. Now we have slightly cheaper KT with RNG cannon. You better prefer build instead of it 1-su85 and t-34 and got more advantages, than trying to hope that your IS-2 turn the game to your side. KT and Pershing in good hands could do that, but not IS-2. As said earlier, IS-2 give you only good defense state, but very unreliable in offensive.
Have you played this game recently? KT turning the game to your side? LUL. IS2 is commonly used by top streamers and players - KT isn't used by anyone in top 300. The KT's penalties/weaknesses are many times worse than what it brings to the table, and it is truly un-useable in 1v1 - unless you're using it as a type of Victory Strike. IS2 on the other hand is actually very good at turning games around.
I use IS2 whenever I feel I don't need Guards. I use KT a total of never. KT is 720/280, 26 pop. It has 3.8 speed 1.4 accel and 12 turret traverse. To put that in perspective, its regular performance is basically moving like an engine damaged medium tank.
OKW gets a p4 out before I can get a t34-85. Instead of building t4 and a t34-85 to try and match him, I call-in an IS2 to outmuscle his solo p4. Even when he gets two p4s the IS2 can easily hold his own, so he basically has to save 225 fuel for a Command Panther. That's easily 8 to 10 mins of dominance on the field - and by the time his Command Panther is out I would have teched t4 and gotten an SU85.
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FelixTHM
Demonslayer
FelixTHM
Relic Entertainment
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