My fav part of this discussion is people using % values in most creative ways they can, because it makes the actual numbers seem big, exaggerating the values, when in fact its very small(for comparison, at exact same distance, conscripts on the move have 6,9 DPS).
I call it snek maneuver.
Couple that with the fact that you don't move and shoot at any other units then retreating ones(reason to close in with tommies does not exist) and you'll have half of that DPS.
The numbers are small because those are the numbers used in game. A stationary Gren squad at long range has 9 dps and 4.5 when moving. 3 dps is a lot of difference in this game because the numbers used are small in general. A huge percentage increase has a huge effect - it's that simple.
You're placing emphasis on the "size" of the numbers as if it actually mattered. If we changed the values in game to models having 80 million hitpoints and doing 16 million damage with a bolt action rifle, then we'd actually meet your criteria for "numbers seem big". But nothing has actually changed - you're simply using "low values" as a red herring.
This is pretty much the most Katitof you can ever go.
42.8% buff is gigantic. It's uncalled for. If a unit does 1 damage in a game where units have 1 health, and its damage increased to 2 that's a 100% increase. You can't magically wave it off and say "oh it's only 1 point of damage", people are over-exaggerating as usual.
Like I said, you've reached peak Katitof. |
So they spent 15 munitions to counter your 10 muni. Your "math" is completely ignoring the fact that sprint is more valuable to a cqc squad than one with bolt actions....
Only in your crazy world
Not agreeing with 100% but sprinting Cons are still much more valuable since they have snares.
That's what made Vet 5 PFusiliers such bullshit last patch. Increased snare range and passive sprint...WTF |
The reason why grens have struggled over the last 2 patches is due to the uncalled for rifle buffs and the OP 7man upgrade. Now cons, in theory, should be balanced, but now still struggle vs rifles and now the new terminator sections. Grens themselves are fine.
The whole reason why bal team made 7man cons so OP in the first place was due to volks being OP. It certainly wasn't because they struggled vs grens. Rifles also struggled early game vs volk cost efficiency. EVERYONE called for volk nerfs and nobody not even codguy called for rifle buffs. But the bal team...... the things they do will surprise you. When there is a CLEAR offending unit, they decide to change everything else around it. SMH. And for the infinite time, I'm gonna sound like a broken record, the rifle (and tOtALLy iNtenTIonAL officer) buffs came at the expense of Ost getting fucked over and not just grens were affected but agrens were also noticeably impacted as well as the assgren - rifle matchup balance was standing on a razor's edge.
If the bal team simply gave volks a REAL nerf (ie. remove sandbags and shift 0.9 RA vet 1 bonus to vet 2) There would be no need for rifle buffs or 7man cons, or at least not with the combat bonuses on top of the extra man) And "balance" would be in a much better state.
Actually CODGUY thinks Grens > Rifles and need a 300mp price tag. |
What's cloudy is your objectivity because you only really remember the times when the ability has been used against you effectively, while not or barely remembering the times it did nothing. Being only on the receiving end of something leads to subjectivity and confirmation bias. It's simple human psychology. If you'd use the strafe yourself you would notice that for the number of times where it (helps) kill(s) tanks effectively, it also at least an equal of times barely deals any damage because tanks get away fast enough or the planes hit houses and trees or the planes get shot down.
You even say yourself that the ability's effectiveness is higher against tanks that have been snared. If you're playing against good players, the fact that the strafe comes in after a tank gets snared (or that a tank gets snared while the strafe is active) is generally speaking not a coincidence. Good players will utilize combined arms and other force multiplying factors to maximize the effectiveness of their units and abilities. That'd be a sign of good play and integral game design, not one of an ability being overpowered.
I also placed the CAS directly behind his retreat path and flanked/rear approached it with spotting infantry squads. |
I dont want this to become a "But X has it too!" back and forth, if a mod could change the title to "Skill Planes" it might clear some things up.
No skill plane should be aple to fully wipe something that is trying to get away, unless of course they are on low health, a faust + an AT strafe is a dead tank and its very silly (there maybe other combos from allies side equally as similar).
I get that I can get an AA unit and stop it but its never just as easy as that, this could be late game where popcap is so tight, you can't afford an AA unit, until of course, the skill planes wipes one of your tanks 
In my ideal solution the AT strafe and similar would be targeted similar to the walking Stuka so you have to predict the path of the tank with 1 pass, if the tank is in that and doesnt move, by all means kill it, its deserved, just to make things less click and win.
It didn't simply kill the tank though. I placed the CAS behind you because you dived so deep, so it was impossible to escape only because you were inside the circle the whole duration. AND I maintained vision throughout almost the whole duration. It was pretty easy, but you're certainly omitting lots of information from the equation.
CAS is pretty BS but let's not pretend it was a "click-and-win". I was floating mountains of MP, fuel, and muni and had arguably already won by the 15 minute mark. It's only on Angoville that you could have survived that long since few other maps are as conducive to turtling. |
Except that the T-shirt and house analogy is completely hysterical, as are you for buying into it. The buffs were all around 10-20% of one single stat for most units. Everybody got a T-shirt except for the Tommies, who got a 0.15% and a 0.05% T-shirt. Nobody got or lost a house.
Except that it's not 0.05%. It's a 50% improvement in RA because we're comparing the previous -10% RA with the current -15% RA. If a unit has 0.1 of a particular stat, and you give it another 0.05, it's not a 0.05% improvement. It's 150% of what it previously was. It's a huge performance improvement relative to the previous iteration of Tommies
And the moving accuracy buff is a 42.8% increase in moving DPS, not 0.15%. Your numbers are off by about 28,500 %.
Tommies have indeed been overtuned but not to the point where they're uncounterable. They used to be great in cover and bad when moving or out of cover. Now they're great in cover and still better than Volks/Grens when moving or out of cover, which is pretty oppressive given how early bolster comes online.
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All of those are correct I agree. But they are not giving the full picture because this is simply a 1v1 comparison and not a faction comparison. Both OKW and OST has nothing better than their AT guns to counter the IS-2 compared to super effective SU-85. Thus even Tiger was better on paper it was overshadowed by IS-2 IMO.
(I know StuG and JP4 exists but they either lack the range or penetration or both)
It's not even correct. He's pretending IS2 didn't have 375 armour.
IS2 had 25% more armour and Tiger's RoF superiority helped to make it a draw between the two at best. |
No, but my t34 might not be on hand (could be being repaired, or elsewhere) and the point was more to illustrate how silly it is to complain about a 90fuel 300mp snare when the counter can be as low as 25mu. I'm not sure how having one of many of your core squads around is too much to ask but sending in a single unit vastly more expensive is so easy it should be nerfed. It is as high of a risk as there is in this game. The reward is appropriate.
It's 10 times sillier to pretend that the T34-76 is just a long range super fast nearly-unblockable snare with a guaranteed long-duration stun even on full health units. And even if it were, the fact that it's able to guarantee kills on tanks which cost 250% the price is kinda a big problem.
1) Faust doesn't stop ram.
2) Faust doesn't trigger when a tank is at full health.
3) Faust only has 15 range. Ram can start from easily triple that range.
4) Faust also takes a long time to load and fire. Even if you start the faust the moment the t34 starts its ram, the T34-76 can still ram the target before faust hits.
5) You seem to have no idea how insanely fast a ram can take place. Once you hear the engine whirl it's like 2 seconds to impact.
There's like a billion things wrong with your imaginary example of android-like players landing a hit on the T34 AND landing a faust on it BEFORE the T34-76 even starts its ram. You somehow think that asking for superhuman levels of micro and reaction JUST to counter a sloppily executed attack by a rank 5000 player is reasonable. I'd like to see you dodge a ram with a Jagdtiger against anyone reasonably within your skill bracket. I'll bet a thousand bucks you can't even do it 20% of the time. I can't even dodge rams 20% of the time with a Tiger against weaker opponents.
When the rank no. 4 Soviet tells you it's a problem there's a pretty good chance that your "just use a panzerfaust LUL" comments are utter rubbish that have no relevance to an actually competitive game. |
A while ago there was a similar thread, where, I forgot who, pointed out that somehow all the high level players are unable to avoid ram, but somehow the players outside of that level claim it's easy to avoid.
I think Stormjäger's option is probably the best one. It preserves the ability, but actually adds some layer of strategy to it.
Complete nonsense. In 1v1/2v2 you can manage, with difficulty to screen your heavy against a single T34. But as game design has it, the unit isn't terrible expensive. And stopping two T34s from ramming is nigh high impossible, especially with the way most of the maps in 2v2 are.
Actually it's once again the Allies-only bias at play rather than skill level. Whether you're top 10 or 1000th, you'll never recognise the difficulty of the other side/factions if you only play Allies.
Heck, I haven't even played team games for 2 years and I can easily understand the issue being described because I have both used the T34 ram ability as well as experienced it.
The man is ranked 4th in Soviet 2v2 and all the Allies-only players are mocking him non-stop with L2P jibes.
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I mean Puma has map hack at vet 5 and JP4 gets crazy good from camo. Luchs has suppression. Fusiliers get sprint. Kubel gets replaced by Konigstiger. Pretty good I'd say.
So a nerf for Kubel at Vet 5 then?  |
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