advanced warfare is fine as it is. aggressive conscript build oriented commander with t34 85. Only thing about it being weak may be il 2 strafe but that is completely up to a person if you like it or not.
think so, too. maybe not the strongest out of the 85 commanders, but certainly not bad. i'd personally prefer vehicle crew repairs over conscript repair kits for the added flexibility, but at least the latter doesn't cost munis. |
If these weapon do the same thing then one should compare the commanders if one these offer different things then the what they bring to the table.
Why though? If you wanted to compare the KV-1 and T-34/85, or KV-2 and IS-2 then you'd go ahead and compare these two units, not the commanders they're in, wouldn't you?
Also, both the B-4 and ML-20 may do 'the same thing' aka lobbing explosive shells at the enemy, yet they are very much different from each other in many ways... in what way does looking at the commanders they come in help to analyze these differences? |
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very interesting analysis. i agree the new B-4 is now an even more capable anti-infantry tool with somewhat limited AT capabilities. overall i'd say this is a good change, since the 3-shell barrage brings a bit more consistency while the frustrating OHKs of anything up to a medium tank caught in the blast are finally a thing of the past. maybe the AI power of the revamped B-4 is even a bit too high, especially in situations where you can't simply retreat back to safety after the first impact (such as in your base sector). guess we'll have see how this thing turns out once more testing has been done.
that being said, i've tried to replicate some of the numbers in your comparison and found mine to be way off. are you sure yours are correct?
New B-4 has 71% less 160 damage radius, and 14% more 80 damage radius, with 3 times the 1 shot area than the ML/20 or leFH. Of note, the Priest actually has a larger 160 damage area. 6 times the 1 shot area of the Sexton.
in my calculation the new B-4 has a slightly greater nominal 160 damage radius (2.397) than the ML-20 (2.323), giving a ~5% difference, and the nominal OHK area (for 80 HP) is only 33% greater instead of 3 times.
also, how did you define the damage per area over time? this is certainly an interesting metric, but clearly depends on the parameters used to calculate it. e.g., do you use the full AoE damage dealt or is it capped at 80 (160) HP? and do you count the whole duration of the barrage cycle including ability recharge or do you use a specified timeframe (e.g. the time it takes the B-4 to fire all 3 shells)? this would be worthwhile to know in order to put things into proper perspective. |
If I understood you right, this is about a squad out of cover. But what if squad is clumped up in yellow cover and you just want to attack ground it, or you are rotating around squad in green cover and then shooting at it, so shells won't overshoot and just hit against green cover? There are a lot of instances where infantry can be clumped up and good OHK can be pretty useful, the question is how much it is the case thought?
yeah, OHK capability is undoubtedly very important. you can easily see this, for example, if you compare the cromwell with other mediums. even though the crom deals more AoE damage per shot to a squad than the Pz.IV, it doesn't kill as many models in the same time frame but instead spreads out that superior AoE damage more evenly over multiple squad members. for the same reason heavies tend to feel a bit underwhelming, even though after only 2 shots fired on average they already perform better (i.e. more kills) than any medium or premium med.
but to come back to this case; the OHK radius reduction for the comet means that the OHK area is around 20% smaller. this applies in every case - in yellow cover, in the open, bunched up in a crater or spread out as wide as possible (but not in green or negative cover, as the damage reduction would shift the OHK threshold up or down in this case). so at best, you're now 20% less likely to kill a model in one shot. and this also doesn't depend on distance to the target, how clumped a squad is or the presence of shot blockers as everything else stayed mostly the same for the Comet prior to after the nerf (yes the scatter angle is a tad bit higher, but this doesn't have such a drastic effect as the scatter distance).
now i do agree that 20% is quite substantial. but you have to keep in mind that this performance difference already shrinks to about 5% within two shots (a 2HK ?) and gets rather negligible from there onwards. |
Grens do similar if not better. And that's in the exact same scenario, disregarding their much better performance out of cover or using their grenade, or the fact that they can heal on the field after such an engagement. [...]
allright, in that case i guess everything is working as intended. thanks a lot for taking the time to test and clarify this. |
Didn't it reduced 80dmg radius by around 15%? This is similar 80dmg distance difference of old comet vs any medium tank like t34-76 or P4.
true. however the actual difference is a bit smaller as infantry models have a hitbox as well (though i don't know the exact size and shape a circle with a radius of 0.5 m around the unit is a good approximation). if you add that the difference drops from a 16.7% to a 10.4% smaller OHK radius.
in-game this difference should only be noticeable for the 1st shot and if my calculations are correct you should get around 20% less OHKs against a full-health squad.
but since the portion the AoE nerf cut off from the overall AoE damage cone (the volume you get by rotating the area under the AoE damage curve around thy y-axis) is very small, the average AoE damage dealt per shot doesn't change much. that means, after 2 and more shots fired both the old and new Comet kill almost the same number of models on average with every shell. obviously this will be different if you look at units with some form of DR (e.g. vet3 grens or units behind heavy cover) as here the AoE curves are quite different.
so to sum up; if you look at OHKs of full-health models or damage against units with DR then, yes, the AoE changes made the Comet quite a bit worse. but in all other cases i'd argue the changes are barely noticeable.
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This test was done on live. Of course an LMG squad beats Cons at long range. So do Grens. That's the point of an LMG upgrade. Cons are a close to mid range squad.
Well, i think what I (and probably others) found most surprising is by what margin they beat Cons, not really the fact that they did. Correct me if I'm wrong but it appears that Osttruppen outperform Grens in that regard quite comfortably, although I have to admit I haven't tested how exactly LMG Grens would fare in the same setup. |
the New changes to Osttruppen make them way too strong.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOfXAtUA-tQ (28:06)
Perhaps scarp the LMG upgrade give them a upgrade similar to cons mobilized reverses upgrade which would fit better into there cannonfodder role
just saw the video and, wow, that's really insane. but instead of nerfing the modifier back to 25% i'd rather reduce the in-cover bonus of the squad by an appreciable amount. that way the MG would still remain a noticeable upgrade without being too strong as it is in the current beta iteration. |
So that 10% scatter nerf seemed like really hurt comet, huh. I used to view Comet as the best battle tank, now I don't know what to say. Played around 25 2v2 matches this patch and lost a lot of places to a point of getting negative win-rate. At some point I was getting afraid that my skill is degrading, tried my luck with SOV and OST and calmed down a bit, even though SOV got nerfed substantially as well.
On paper the nerfs were deserved, but in practice it made faction weak, could be possible that I have no idea how to play the faction in current patch.
Probably won't touch UKF this patch.
honestly the scatter nerf didn't really impact the Comet's performance at all. as a rule of thumb, changes to angular scatter (which was nerfed here slightly) have less impact than changes to scatter distance due to the shape of the scatter cone. the more important nerf imo was the 'bug fix' of the AoE near damage, which was reduced to 120 as previously intended. however, this also has little impact in 90% of all cases and basically only reduced the damage and chance to kill vs units in green cover (OHK chance essentially went down to zero).
hence, i'd argue the Comet nerfs are hardly noticeable in-game except in fringe cases and if it used to be a great tank before the patch, it still is now. |
Giving Partisans merge is like setting a nuke off inside your manpower reserves. Not only are you taking a squad that takes 36mp to reinforce and making it have to reinforce more, but you're taking a squad member with above 1 RA and putting it into another squad where he will immediately die if the breeze blows a bit too hard. Fun, hilarious, but an awful idea with current iteration of Partisans.
I'd like to see a way for Partisans to reinforce off ambient buildings when not in combat. Might actually justify the oppressive reinforce cost and make them a little more interesting than Soviet Stormtroopers. (Assuming this is even possible)
+1
in addition, the high base RA combined with relatively high reinforcement cost is what makes Partisans a huge burden the more the game progresses, and i wish there were ways to mitigate this to some degree.
i like the idea to allow on-field reinforcement from ambient structures a lot, though i agree this would be way too powerful if enabled permanently. my personal favorite is to tie this to the activation of spy network, since it would not only fit thematically but also restore a bit of the utility lost with the proposed nerfs to spy network in the beta.
alternatively, a reinforment cost reduction for partisans while the ability is active would also be a neat way to lessen the MP bleed a little bit. |