The supression it had before made it op.
Maybe give its old setup and packup time back. Give sprint back, because it current ability doesnt do it either.
It might no supress then but its mobile and can support cons or ce,s as damage booster and it can keep up.
The thing is, it suppresses well enough if massed. Part of it too is that cons are not worth supporting/being support. Would you rather a con squad who can't scale until you fully tech and will lose helplessly against the enemy units costing the same or another MG that can support your existing MG for only 40mp more? They deal enough damage that a pair of then has far more to offer than a maxim and a con squad ever could.
Bump the maxim up to 300mp and make it do its job a little bit and drop cons to 220 and you might see the occasional con support squad but nobody wants cons as support RN because cons are not support. |
4 tiers, yes, but their pacing be like:
T1 --- T2 --------------------------------T3 --- T4
That 90 fuel for bp2 is massive
As katitof said. It used to be an even and steady progression but people were like "hey! If I want a p4 it's too expensive to transition into panther spam, change that" so they did... |
But the 0.2-0.3 packing up time would allow you to easily dodge any rifle nades.
In theory. The motorcycle pathing likes to make up for that as much as the cgunner dying and and deathlooping.
Its a unit designed to be on the front that is drastically punished for being on the front and also unable to do its job. It's really just a shit unit
What's more, "it has a 6 man crew!" just means that it's absolutely a d entirely useless if another faction tries to use it. The 6 man crew should be a bonus, not a requirement for it to function (kinda like vet abilities but I guess I'm at odds with the balance team there) |
You are looking at surpression and ignoring other factors.
Yeah, Maxim is indeed the worst in suppression of all mgs but in everything else it is good. It is definitely better than MG34.
Why and it is simple.
Way better Damage, survivability, deploy time and its definitely manoeuvrable which makes it hell of a lot of more effective in terms of support. Timing is everything! You can not exactly run around it or counter it that easily if you encounter it right?
Adding strong surpression to Maxim would kill the game because then, it can not even be countered. Maybe, what they can do instead is to add more accuracy for more damage focused instead. Would most certainly make Maxim more of a popular choice than it is now.
Surely, adding surpression to Maxim would destroy the game. I would rather increase damage or some other areas to make it better. Giving it better Surpression is not a good idea at all. Should not give that cuz every other MG has that. Maybe something different since its is 6 guys otherwise make it 4 to give good suppression.
Currently putting maxim in buildings and dueling with either MG34 or MG42. Maxim wins because of damage, survivability and long bursts.
Does not necessarily make Maxim terrible if its bad in one thing only. Look at the other stuff.
Obviously other changes would take place
Saying "who cares about Supression it has damage!" is like saying the brit sniper isn't the worst sniper because it has a better chance at dealing a minuscule amount of damage to lightly armored vehicles. You don't buy a machine gun for damaging models any more than you buy a sniper to damage tanks.
What's more, both axis mgs can double their damage and increase their pen with vet making them ideal at topping infantry, dueling machine guns and mulching light vehicles. The maxim gets "reload and then pretend you are a proper machine gun"
The maxim is the worst MG bar none at doing what mgs are designed to do. The fact that it can accomplish other tasks despite failing at its dedicated task is more proof of its need to change not reinforcement of its current state. |
I fail to see how the only faction with 4 tiers and 3 sub tier techs has trouble finding a place to tie units to tech. There are 7 bloody semi steps! We can figure out somewhere to stick the damn thing... |
If you give paratrooper m1 carbines a big nerf in addition to locking weapon upgrades behind either cp2, tech or both I would be ok with it. The damage output of their carbines often gets underestimated when in reality it's pretty close to having a 6 man squad all armed with grenadier G43s.
Cut the m1 carbine dps by 20% and 1cp makes sense, otherwise the unit is too strong even without upgrades.
Edit: While their durability isnt comparable to shocks, when upgraded with thompsons their firepower is substantially better at all ranges and their focus fire ability makes them into squad wiping machines in addition to having a lower reinforce cost and innate paratrooper utilities. I would call that fairly equivalent.
Locking all upgrades behind weapon racks might help in that regard. And you are right about the carbines, they pretty nasty for sure. It's part of what makes me thing perhaps 2cp might be better than 1. Either are better than 3 |
Thats poor logic, its hard to get a paratrooper into the main base too, should its demo 1hko the main base?
Now THAT is poor logic. Sturmtiger can OHK a howitzer why can't it OHK a mortar pit? Teller can OHK a light tank, why can't it OHK a heavy tank?
Certain abilities are designed for certain things. Is there a reason that landing paras behind an undefended howitzer shouldn't be a counter? If not this than what exactly IS the purpose of the ability? What other use is a timed demo charge? Bunkers? Assuming you can land unmolested and plant you might as well just bring up the fastest firing AT gun and save over 100mp and a not insignificant number of munitions. |
IMHO usf demo charges shouldnt be able to destroy lefh or pak43, that would prove problematic. 2 or 3 demo charges per lefh seems like a good number.
Iirc the demo is 45 mu, so you think an elite squad behind the lines should take 90-135 mu and something like a minute with cooldown and planting to destroy the emplacement? I'm fairly certain you could drag an AT gun in and kill it quicker... |
This idea definitely sounds like an awesome way of making Paratroopers viable in the early game, so I went ahead and worked it into a mod, though I haven't released it yet.
I took all your suggestions and implemented them: the LMG Upgrade is locked behind 'Weapon Racks' side-tech, with only the SMGs being available to upgrade from get go. Cooked Grenades I'm split on locking behind side tech, honestly.
As for the Timed Explosive ability, I basically turned it into the Penal Satchel charge.
All that said, I think it'd be a good idea to shuffle Vet 2 and 3 around. That way, Paras get their accuracy boost the latest time possible (in order to mitigate their pressure on early game infantry), but they also gain their received accuracy bonuses faster. Maybe lock their 6th Man behind Vet 2 as well? Those carbines are pretty good, and even just 5 (the amount Rangers have) is nothing to sneeze at.
could try locking the 6th man behind 2 officers or officer and vehicle tech if thats possible. id rather not have a durability issue with such an expensive squad tied to vet as it makes replacing a vetted squad that much harder. plus it makes paras more unique as a 6 man squad |
The weapon upgrades themselves are only half the problem. Paratroopers are still an incredibly potent unit that will easily demolish Grens, in particular since they're unlikely to have weapon upgrades at that point. Heck, they'll be potent enough to wipe MG42s as well, in particular since they don't require unlocked grenades.
I'm also not sure the Falls comparison is that spot on. If you've ever been on the receiving end of a Paratrooper LMG blob, you know what I mean. Yes, Falls can do likewise to an extend, but at least they're utter glass cannons, especially because they're 4 man squads. You'll always wipe a Falls much easier than a Paratrooper squad.
That said, don't get distracted by Falls. I said this in other threads, but balancing Allied factions towards OKW is an absolute disaster move that has left Ost in its worst state ever (until the last patch, and even in the last tournament most players opted for OKW).
Was playing 1v1s at the time, and only posting between matches, that's why I had no time to respond to your post until now
i had initially suggested 2 cp to be inline with shocks and guards, but i do think that 1 cp without weapon upgrades could be do able. paras with carbines would absoultly beat grens, but so do penals while coming sooner and costing lest and their durability would be the same so i think the same measures would work.
lmg blobs of all shapes and sizes are an issue, especially with 6 man squads. unrelated to the current topic i do feel like hard capping call in units would be to the benefit of the game. 2 squads a blob does not make. core units should be just that- the core of an army, but doctrinal units should have a place as well adn i share the convition that paras come too late to fill the role that they are supposed to, as the number of sqauds to effetivly play should be reached by 3 cp so its hard to find them a home. |