I suggest you tried try play UKF,
I have 2.594 games as UKF.
you might discovery that contrary to kubel, Uc can not cap, unit inside cant not fire and actually cost more MP +(minor) fuel.
I am glad to see that you do agree with me that Kubel and UC are different units that are used differently and thus minhuh064's argument that "OKW can do exactly the same without picking any docs" hold no water at all. I am not sure why you quoting me thou instead of him and pointing out the differences to him.
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Ther are other more powerful smg troop arrive at the same time (0cp).
Troop in the UC cant fire and a drop is a onetime only high risk/reward move, which is nowhere near troublesome.
There is no high risk in dropping troops with UC in the early engagements especially in big maps and I am not sure what you are comparing the "troublesome" with.
Tell you what since you do Play UKF I suggest that for you next 10 games you try an UC infatry drop and lets us know how many times it failed. |
still don't know how it is problematic when OKW can do exactly the same without picking any docs?
I suggest you tried ti play OKW, you might discovery that contrary to UC kubel can not transport units and it a more powerful unit. |
Then feel free to provide your own definition of "walk over" and prof of that before asking other, since you are the one who start it.
That is simply untrue Katukov brought up the "walk over".
As usual, you focus only on one aspect while neglect many other element of the unit. You present what you called "fact" but always in a incomplete picture, out of context or misleading, but this is not any new of you. Yes, better recc acc is a thing but there is also other "fact" like that Ro.e deal half the dps of ass section, meaning that they have to stay in combat longer to dish out same amount of dmg, thus more prone to causalities. Those element offset each others.
Edited: Anyway, if you already accept that the power lever of RRo.e itself is not an issue, then just move on.
PLS cut the down on the personal comments and I did not paint an incomplete picture I respond to a claim that RoRe can not walk to Gren/VG.
RoRe are not more prone to ASIS that simply false. As you have already posted once RoRe or ASIS reach Gren/VG those units will simply have to retreat or die.
You can also move on instead of playing word games.
Which are already pointed out by many pp as to be no more troublesome than any other synergy combo of the same timing and have counter widely available in short/very short amount of time after contact. You you seriously think the combo should be shut down at the fist contact then it is simply delusional.
Only it is more troublesome since other troop carriers with SMG troop arrive later.
i already did.
Great.
So can RoRe walk up to Gren/VG even behind cover and force them to retreat? |
Since you are claiming that rro.e can "can walk over VG/Grenadier", pls provide proof of it. I dont know what others think but losing 1/2 model while close in before the enemy squad safely retreat/reposition is not exactly "walk over", at lest to me.
You entitled to have your own definition of things and debate "walk over" as much as you like, the fact remains that RoRe are more durable than most troops of their time frame including other SMGs troops.
When it comes to taking casualties they will take less causalities than Assault IS for instance because they have better received accuracy. But that has little to do with this thread which is about the synergy of RoRe with UC and the initial engagements.
And no, kurobane did not claim that vanilla Gren/Volks will beat RoRe, it is you putting words into his mount as "If you are losing Volksgrenadiers/Grenadiers to Royal Engineers then the issue is you" is not automatic translate to such claim. At best it can be understand that the match up outcome is depend on player input, leaving gren/vgren in mele range with ro.e is wrong input.
I suggest you present your own views instead of the view of Kurobane, I am pretty sure that as an adult he can post his own views.
And since according to you the "match up" is depended on player input you have to agree that one can lose these fight even if he is not"sending VG/Grenadiers into melee range". Contrary to his claims that "grenadiers are Op" and "OKW have the best stock infantry in the game" VG and Gren can lose to RoRe. |
Well in Viper's eyes everything on the Allied side is overpowered apparently. Wouldn't be surprised if he made a thread stating Rear Echelon or Combat Engineers were OP. He is probably trolling honestly.
Are you sending VG/Grenadiers into melee range? You do know there is a thread open about Grenadier being OP and OKW have the best stock infantry in the game. If you are losing Volksgrenadiers/Grenadiers to Royal Engineers then the issue is you. Why are you trying to melee Royal Engineers with units that excel at long range? Vipper is obviously trolling.
Second if Royal Engineers and UC is OP then you are saying that OKW is OP because Sturmpioneers with Minesweeper (faster repair speed) allows Kubelwagon to harass nonstop just like the UC.
Also unlike USF who have to just sit there and take it for the first few minutes, OKW have T0 AT Guns.
Since you are claiming that vanilla Gren/Volks will beat RoRe pls provide proof of it. |
and it cant defeat sturmpios (their equivalent) unless sturmpios advance into cover against stationary engineers.
they aren't these god mode shock troop tier units that you describe them as, if you walk into volks/grens then you will lose half the squad and the enemy can just retreat before losing models.
nobody considers this an overpowered combo, it is clearly counterable from minute 0 (grenadier/pfus). its even funnier that assault sections do the exact same combo in the exact same timeframe and that isn't somehow considered overpowered? what a surprise that SMG units beat rifle units at close range
I did not describe them as "god mode shock troop" that is all you.
Yes a similar combo is available with A.S. and that part of the reason why lend lease is so popular. |
recovery engineers are good but nothing special (they still lose to sturmpio in an equal fight, and cant mindlessly walk into enemies)
nobody has ever claimed recovery engineers were op until you, that should be saying something
If a 250 manpower unit could beat a 300 manpower unit in an equal fight it would not just be OP but broken.
RoRe are actually one of the most durable units for its time frame and they can walk over VG/Grenadier, but the main issue is not RoRe themselves but the synergy with UC in initial fights especially in big maps.
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Surely a good unit, but far from OP.
UC can be fausted and is easy prey for the 222. Even an MG can do decent damage or kill it quickly using the vet1 ability.
It's not like the UC+RER would be a wipe machine similar to old M3 or the 250 combos.
This issue has more to do with timing and less with power.
The RoRe are OP for an engineer unit (especially with heavy sapper upgrade) but that is not the issue. It issue has to with timing and with initial contact. |
They are perfectly fine. By the time you have those two and the starting section, you'll be fighting:
A) 1 Gren/Assault Gren, 1 MG42, 1/2 Pio
B) 1 Sturmpio, 2/3 Volks
Both of which can fight the combo with OST being able to launch a faust from mile away or OKW slaughtering your engineers with sturmpioneer.
All one has to do is produce the UC and call in the RoRe and that happen bellow minute 1.
Depending on the Map they can arrive on the field quite fast.
The UC and RoRe will beat a SP. In a map like red ball express a second VG will not even arrive and a third will not even be produced.
Even if rush the fuel for instance in red ball with pio/hmg/grenadier you will arrive at about the same time with IS/UC/RoRe but you will simply not have enough mu for Faust |
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